# Who collects the trash in Galt's Gulch? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 17, 2014, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-collects-the-trash-in-galts-gulch/681569 "2014-02-17T23:54:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-collects-the-trash-in-galts-gulch/681569/21 "2014-02-18T02:36:12Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Which makes it all the more hilarious that Rand didn’t become rich doing what she thought was valuable. She presumably would have, in her mind, in her ideal world. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-collects-the-trash-in-galts-gulch/681569/22 "2014-02-18T02:36:34Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > So much more the better. She never achieved wealth. She achieved only that which she despised. How selfless! Which is to say, how utterly contemptible in Randian terms! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-collects-the-trash-in-galts-gulch/681569/23 "2014-02-18T02:47:05Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Which makes it all the more hilarious that Rand didn’t become rich doing what she thought was valuable. Really? She didn’t make enough money from her best selling books to be considered rich? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-collects-the-trash-in-galts-gulch/681569/24 "2014-02-18T02:51:56Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Really? She didn’t make enough money from her best selling books to be considered rich? Apparently she accepted medicare to prevent being wiped out by medical debt and left an estate worth $500k on her death in 1982. So, not destitute, but not a millionaire, not as wealthy as some may have thought. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-collects-the-trash-in-galts-gulch/681569/25 "2014-02-18T02:55:15Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Apparently she accepted medicare to prevent being wiped out by medical debt and left an estate worth $500k on her death in 1982. So, not destitute, but not a millionaire, not as wealthy as some may have thought. I’d like a little more info than that. I read her biography, and she lead what I’d call the life of a rich person. I mean, I’m easily in the top 2% myself, but I can’t live like she did. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-collects-the-trash-in-galts-gulch/681569/26 "2014-02-18T02:57:23Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Apparently she accepted medicare to prevent being wiped out by medical debt and left an estate worth $500k on her death in 1982. So, not destitute, but not a millionaire, not as wealthy as some may have thought. Which or course means she didn’t have the ability to make more, because free market. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-collects-the-trash-in-galts-gulch/681569/27 "2014-02-18T03:05:05Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Which or course means she didn’t have the ability to make more, because free market. Well, she made exactly the amount that the market (free or not or somewhere in-between, depending on your assessment of the US’s market) “let” her. But I think friend **Chimera** is grossly misinformed about the amount of money Ayn Rand made during her life. _Atlas Shrugged_ sold like crazy, as did _The Fountainhead_. If you think she didn’t get “rich” off those two books alone I’ve got a bridge just north of where I live that you surely will be interested in. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-collects-the-trash-in-galts-gulch/681569/28 "2014-02-18T03:09:02Z")
Well, if she made it, then she spent it, and not wisely. Because like I said, she left an estate of only a half a mil when she died in 1982. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-collects-the-trash-in-galts-gulch/681569/29 "2014-02-18T03:11:48Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Well, if she made it, then she spent it, and not wisely. Because like I said, she left an estate of only a half a mil when she died in 1982. Why would she want to leave an estate of more than $500k? She had no children, you know, but even if she did, why would that change anything? Why would she not have spent her money wisely? Do you think that Rand valued money in and of itself? That her goal was to collect, and save lots and lots of money so that she had oodles and oodles of it when she died? If so, you misunderstand her completely. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-collects-the-trash-in-galts-gulch/681569/30 "2014-02-18T03:16:02Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Why would she want to leave an estate of more than $500k? She had no children, you know, but even if she did, why would that change anything? > > Why would she not have spent her money wisely? Because well run estates of wealthy people often are not close to running out of money when they die at 77? ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-collects-the-trash-in-galts-gulch/681569/31 "2014-02-18T03:16:44Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Well, if she made it, then she spent it, and not wisely. Because like I said, she left an estate of only a half a mil when she died in 1982. This doesn’t make a bit of sense. What’s more wise, spending your money on things that you enjoy and having a nice cushion at the end or for some bizarre reason saving it all and having millions when you die? ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-collects-the-trash-in-galts-gulch/681569/32 "2014-02-18T03:20:24Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Because well run estates of wealthy people often are not close to running out of money when they die at 77? Now we’re really down the rabbit hole. She had the equivalent of 1.2 million dollars in today’s money when she died and was continuing to earn more money in royalties so it’s not like that was all she had. In what universe is that almost running out of money at 77? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-collects-the-trash-in-galts-gulch/681569/33 "2014-02-18T03:22:09Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Because well run estates of wealthy people often are not close to running out of money when they die at 77? First of all, we don’t know that she was running out of money when she died. Some anonymous poster on a MB stated that. If that’s true, perhaps you can provide a cite. Otherwise, I think you are falling into the trap of accepting unsupported claims because they reinforce your world-view. Secondly, if you think she gave two shits about what anyone, other than herself, thought a “well run estate” should consist of, you don’t know much about her. Thirdly, it’s a myth that she equated wealth with moral value, so even if she made little money at all, it wouldn’t matter to her. What she did not do, as some on this MB do, is equate wealth with moral depravity. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-collects-the-trash-in-galts-gulch/681569/34 "2014-02-18T03:28:25Z")
> [@](#): > > But I think friend **Chimera** is grossly misinformed about the amount of money Ayn Rand made during her life. _Atlas Shrugged_ sold like crazy, as did _The Fountainhead_. If you think she didn’t get “rich” off those two books alone I’ve got a bridge just north of where I live that you surely will be interested in. You can get rich off one best selling novel, true. You can also just lead a comfortable life. I don’t know if she was clever enough to get a good deal from whoever published her work. That said, I’ll freely admit that her work had an appeal that inspired near fanatical devotion among a wedge of society. Hopefully that’s enough to be very rich. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-collects-the-trash-in-galts-gulch/681569/35 "2014-02-18T03:35:38Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > You can get rich off one best selling novel, true. You can also just lead a comfortable life. > > I don’t know if she was clever enough to get a good deal from whoever published her work. > > That said, I’ll freely admit that her work had an appeal that inspired near fanatical devotion among a wedge of society. Hopefully that’s enough to be very rich. Probably so. But just out of curiosity… do you think she would consider herself a failure if she had not become rich? Let’s remember what started this little side discussion: > [@Chimera](#): > > Which makes it all the more hilarious that Rand didn’t become rich doing what she thought was valuable. Let’s say she had not become rich. Would that be hilarious, in the sense that it would somehow brand her as a failure? I mean, there certainly was a time when she was very poor. Was she a failure then, but only was “valuable” when she published a best seller. And just to be clear, it was 2 best selling novels, not one. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-collects-the-trash-in-galts-gulch/681569/36 "2014-02-18T03:46:11Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Now we’re really down the rabbit hole. She had the equivalent of 1.2 million dollars in today’s money when she died and was continuing to earn more money in royalties so it’s not like that was all she had. In what universe is that almost running out of money at 77? I’ll probably leave assests worth considerably more than 1.2 million in today’s dollars unless I, or my wife, die young (ish). I’d hope that if I’d written a handful of books that drove some people to insane levels of devotion, and sold millions of copies, I’d do more than that. A protracted illness could wipe a million and change out pretty quick. Shit, she lived in Manhattan, didn’t she? What is that, 4 years of a decent lifestyle there? Her estate presumably included whatever condo she lived in. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-collects-the-trash-in-galts-gulch/681569/37 "2014-02-18T03:59:05Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I read her biography, and she lead what I’d call the life of a rich person. You can do that with money, or you can do that with slavish followers. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-collects-the-trash-in-galts-gulch/681569/38 "2014-02-18T04:02:11Z")
In what world is a person worth $500,000 not rich? Particularly in 1982 dollars? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-collects-the-trash-in-galts-gulch/681569/39 "2014-02-18T04:04:24Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Probably so. But just out of curiosity… do you think she would consider herself a failure if she had not become rich? Let’s remember what started this little side discussion: > Let’s say she had not become rich. Would that be hilarious, in the sense that it would somehow brand her as a failure? I mean, there certainly was a time when she was very poor. Was she a failure then, but only was “valuable” when she published a best seller. > > And just to be clear, it was 2 best selling novels, not one. I consider her a failure in that she made the world a worse place to live by creating a “philosophy” that, at least to many adherents, turns them into shitty people. Or at least people who make shitty decisions, Greenspan and the Paul boys, for instance. As to whether she considered herself a failure, I couldn’t say. If she hadn’t made a dollar, I’d suspect her self-esteem would have been shittier than it was. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-collects-the-trash-in-galts-gulch/681569/40 "2014-02-18T04:06:22Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > Even if your characterization of Galt’s Gulch were correct, which it is not, you are still missing the point. If no-one collects the trash, it will pile up and become a noisome and unsanitary mess. Therefore, everyone there will have a motive to do something about it, i.e. to pay someone to take care of it. Exactly > [@](#): > > A better question would be: where do they put the trash in Galt’s Gulch? You have to be careful of property rights, you can’t just establish a dump next to someone’s house and expect them to live with the smell. My guess would be that some entrepreneur would discover recycling and would burn the rest cleanly for energy. This actually wouldn’t be a better question, as it has the same answer as your first paragraph…someone would see the money in it and use their land for a land fill (or, as you say, would figure out ways to recycle). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-collects-the-trash-in-galts-gulch/681569.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-collects-the-trash-in-galts-gulch/681569.md?page=3)