# Who collects the trash in Galt's Gulch? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 17, 2014, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-collects-the-trash-in-galts-gulch/681569 "2014-02-17T23:54:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-collects-the-trash-in-galts-gulch/681569/101 "2014-02-19T01:13:35Z")
Kinda like Hermann Hesse in a way, the notions of a special breed of superior people, avatars of excellence who pass amongst we of the _grubbenproles_. But unlike racism, its not localized in a particular branch of humanity…not white people, more like _smart_ people, but more than just smart, more alive, more assertive, more _engaged._… Did they presage the arrival of The Cecil and the dawning of the SDMB? We cannot know for sure, but perhaps the brilliance of our light penetrated even the dark veils of time itself… ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-collects-the-trash-in-galts-gulch/681569/102 "2014-02-19T02:27:14Z")
This sidetrack about whether or not Rand embodied her philosophy is pretty pointless. Because Rand herself would have been the first to tell you she didn’t have the opportunity to do so. She didn’t live in the objectivist utopia she called for. She lived in what she viewed as the flawed American political and economic system. So the issue of whether she died rich or poor is moot as far as it reflects on her philosophy. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-collects-the-trash-in-galts-gulch/681569/103 "2014-02-19T02:42:56Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > This sidetrack about whether or not Rand embodied her philosophy is pretty pointless. Because Rand herself would have been the first to tell you she didn’t have the opportunity to do so. She didn’t live in the objectivist utopia she called for. She lived in what she viewed as the flawed American political and economic system. So the issue of whether she died rich or poor is moot as far as it reflects on her philosophy. given the fact that plenty of other authors made a lot lot lot more money than she did, we have no choice but to declare Rand an utter failure, in terms of her “message” and living up to it’s standards. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-collects-the-trash-in-galts-gulch/681569/104 "2014-02-19T02:45:05Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Dagney knew about the magic hidden valley, but they let her leave, because she was one of those special people who could be trusted with the secret. And Galt went in and out all the time, I can’t remember if others did or not. Francisco knew about it, didn’t he? And Ragnar? Then it would still come down to an impossible to keep secret, since as I stated earlier, this valley needs to be supplied with food, water, electricity, labor, luxury goods, etc; and all of that would be impossible to hide over time. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-collects-the-trash-in-galts-gulch/681569/105 "2014-02-19T03:08:42Z")
A year or so ago wasn’t there a proposal to dump all the very rich people on a boat and send it adrift into the far seas, cunningly disguised as an opportunity for them to live on an exclusive luxurious floating Galt’s Gulch away from the common looters and low knaves who would tax them beyond misery ? ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-collects-the-trash-in-galts-gulch/681569/106 "2014-02-19T03:50:07Z")
I think it’s remarkable how many people criticise (and viciously so) Rand and her philosophy but have neither read any of her books nor have any intention of doing so. I’ve been in a debate on this MB where some posters ascribed ideas to her which they are entirely unwilling(and, since I’ve actually read the books, I also know they’re unable) to cite. Instead, they fall back on arbitrary mockery. The intellectual dishonesty displayed in most criticism of her is pretty telling. ---
**Author:** ![ThisUsernameIsForbidden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b4bc9f/32.png) [@ThisUsernameIsForbidden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThisUsernameIsForbidden)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-collects-the-trash-in-galts-gulch/681569/107 "2014-02-19T04:08:03Z")
I’ll just leave this here. [Rand Interview](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ooKsv_SX4Y) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-collects-the-trash-in-galts-gulch/681569/108 "2014-02-19T04:22:09Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > given the fact that plenty of other authors made a lot lot lot more money than she did, we have no choice but to declare Rand an utter failure, in terms of her “message” and living up to it’s standards. We have no choice? Can you quote the standards of hers that you are referring to? ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-collects-the-trash-in-galts-gulch/681569/109 "2014-02-19T04:32:57Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > We have no choice? Can you quote the standards of hers that you are referring to? how brilliance would shine if only it werent for all the leeches and takers dragging them down ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-collects-the-trash-in-galts-gulch/681569/110 "2014-02-19T04:48:41Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > how brilliance would shine if only it werent for all the leeches and takers dragging them down First question: Is that a quote from Ayn Rand, or a quote from you. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-collects-the-trash-in-galts-gulch/681569/111 "2014-02-19T04:50:29Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > I think it’s remarkable how many people criticise (and viciously so) Rand and her philosophy but have neither read any of her books nor have any intention of doing so. I’ve been in a debate on this MB where some posters ascribed ideas to her which they are entirely unwilling(and, since I’ve actually read the books, I also know they’re unable) to cite. Instead, they fall back on arbitrary mockery. The intellectual dishonesty displayed in most criticism of her is pretty telling. I made the comparison to David Icke earlier. His political philosophy is based on the idea that the world is being run by a race of alien lizards who are masquerading as human beings. Icke has written several books outlining his theory. Have I read these books? No. Do I plan on reading these books? No. Do I nonetheless feel confident in dismissing his theory? Yes. If the milk smells bad, you aren’t obligated to drink it to be sure it really is bad. You just throw it out based on the way it smells. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-collects-the-trash-in-galts-gulch/681569/112 "2014-02-19T04:56:51Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I made the comparison to David Icke earlier. His political philosophy is based on the idea that the world is being run by a race of alien lizards who are masquerading as human beings. > > Icke has written several books outlining his theory. Have I read these books? No. Do I plan on reading these books? No. Do I nonetheless feel confident in dismissing his theory? Yes. > > If the milk smells bad, you aren’t obligated to drink it to be sure it really is bad. You just throw it out based on the way it smells. Are those meant to be works of fiction? No. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-collects-the-trash-in-galts-gulch/681569/113 "2014-02-19T05:03:23Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] Icke has written several books outlining his theory. Have I read these books? No. Do I plan on reading these books? No. Do I nonetheless feel confident in dismissing his theory? Yes. [/QUOTE] Sure. But do you equally feel confident debating the finer points of his book(s), including extrapolations of various concepts? If you are just going to dismiss everything as bunk then WHY DEBATE THE SUBJECT AT ALL? That’s what I don’t get about these threads. You have folks who chime in who have never read the book, folks tearing imaginary plot holes in the story that they have never read, and then you have 'luci expostulating on gods know what…and all for a book that 90% of the posters in this or most other threads despise and basically haven’t read at all (or claim to have read while displaying a startling lack of understanding of the basics). What’s the point? Why chime in? What is it about this subject that pulls the posters out of the wood work to dis on a book that most people haven’t bothered to read or understand? > [@](#): > > If the milk smells bad, you aren’t obligated to drink it to be sure it really is bad. You just throw it out based on the way it smells. 😛 And yet, here you are, discussing it. Come on…you got to admit, this is funny as hell, especially for a site that claims to be about fighting ignorance. The only thing funnier at this point is Chimera attempting to tear holes in the plot of a book s/he has admitted s/he has never read, and clearly doesn’t know the first thing about. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-collects-the-trash-in-galts-gulch/681569/114 "2014-02-19T05:06:35Z")
**Little Nemo** is saying that since he didn’t read Thor Hyerdhal’s _Kon Tiki_, there is no reason for him to read Mitchener’s _Hawaii_ in order to criticize the latter. That makes all kids of sense. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-collects-the-trash-in-galts-gulch/681569/115 "2014-02-19T05:07:06Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > First question: Is that a quote from Ayn Rand, or a quote from you. we are talking about the book where all the really talented people moved to a secret town of their own so all the takers and leeches would quit dragging them down, right? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-collects-the-trash-in-galts-gulch/681569/116 "2014-02-19T05:08:57Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > we are talking about the book where all the really talented people moved to a secret town of their own so all the takers and leeches would quit dragging them down, right? I’ll take that as a no. It was not a quote. I asked you for a quote to substantiate your claim. In response, you made something up. This forum is called Great Debates; not Great Things You Make Up. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-collects-the-trash-in-galts-gulch/681569/117 "2014-02-19T05:13:38Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’ll take that as a no. It was not a quote. I asked you for a quote to substantiate your claim. In response, you made something up. This forum is called Great Debates; not Great Things You Make Up. well as long as you get to set the rules for your debates i guess you’ll allways win wont you? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-collects-the-trash-in-galts-gulch/681569/118 "2014-02-19T05:14:18Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > well as long as you get to set the rules for your debates i guess you’ll allways win wont you? In your debate rules, do you get to make stuff up? ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-collects-the-trash-in-galts-gulch/681569/119 "2014-02-19T05:18:35Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > In your debate rules, do you get to make stuff up? this is not accurate?: in the book, all the really talented people moved to a secret town of their own so all the takers and leeches would quit dragging them down, right? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-collects-the-trash-in-galts-gulch/681569/120 "2014-02-19T05:19:53Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > this is not accurate?: > > in the book, all the really talented people moved to a secret town of their own so all the takers and leeches would quit dragging them down, right? Wrong. But even if that were correct, how does that prove that “we have no choice but to declare Rand an utter failure, in terms of her “message” and living up to it’s standards” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-collects-the-trash-in-galts-gulch/681569.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-collects-the-trash-in-galts-gulch/681569.md?page=7)