# Who could have won? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump, kamala-harris\ **Created:** [November 7, 2024, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-could-have-won/1009829 "2024-11-07T01:00:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-could-have-won/1009829/41 "2024-11-07T16:37:14Z")
I think voters are always just going to lump the candidate fromtge administration with the current president. Trying to break with Biden wouldn’t have worked. I think this would have been the case with a lot of possible candidates, it would take an obvious outsider to pull it off. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-could-have-won/1009829/42 "2024-11-07T17:06:40Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > As being discussed in another thread, you cannot argue macroeconomics since the people have to deal with microeconomics. GNP means nothing when eggs are superexpensive, assuming you can find them. You can’t explain 2% inflation and how recessions are bad when people wonder why prices always go up at a rate greater than their pay. You can’t explain how we are at the lowest reasonable unemployment rate while people apply for a dozen jobs a week and can’t get an interview. You just did literally the exact thing I’m complaining about. If you take an individual person and their grocery bill, there’s a good chance we’ll find out that their pay has gone up witih prices. If we are _not_ talking about named individuals, then aggregate statistics are the only way to get at that truth. Instead we’re all taking it as established fact that there are a bunch of people out there who saw 400% increase in food prices and a 0% increase in wages. I’m sure that’s happened to a minority of people, but the numbers say it’s not happening to most people. And we’re being very emphatic to insist that there is _no possible way_ to find out if this abstract persona actually reflects most people’s experience. This makes it unkillable as a propaganda piece. It feels very true, and it can’t possibly be analyzed, so it runs wild across everyone’s phones. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-could-have-won/1009829/43 "2024-11-07T17:12:52Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Can we stick to grown-up English, please? We’re talking about the voting attitudes and habits of young people among others. It won’t kill you to learn an extremely common and relevant bit of slang. “Based” = authentic, courageous, no bullshit, true to principle, not trying to be a people-pleaser or punch-puller, unlike typical politicians. In the 2016 era, online conservatives used this as a synonym for “not politically correct”, now it’s spread to broader usage. ---
**Author:** ![WreckingCrew](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wreckingcrew/32/4080_2.png) [@WreckingCrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WreckingCrew)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-could-have-won/1009829/44 "2024-11-07T17:19:31Z")
Funny thing, but at the moment Bernie got fewer votes in Vermont than Kamala did. So maybe he can shut his damn mouth. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-could-have-won/1009829/45 "2024-11-07T18:05:15Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Can we stick to grown-up English, please? Cringe. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-could-have-won/1009829/46 "2024-11-07T18:07:13Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > In the 2016 era, online conservatives used this as a synonym for “not politically correct”, now it’s spread to broader usage. Interesting, I didn’t know about that origin - I’ve only seen left leaning people (some very left) use it - but, I guess I wasn’t watching online conservatives in 2016, so that tracks! ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-could-have-won/1009829/47 "2024-11-07T18:07:57Z")
> [@WreckingCrew](#): > > Funny thing, but at the moment Bernie got fewer votes in Vermont than Kamala did. So maybe he can shut his damn mouth. Clearly, we need to tack even further left than Bernie. /S ---
**Author:** ![squidfood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a87d85/32.png) [@squidfood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squidfood)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-could-have-won/1009829/48 "2024-11-07T18:25:02Z")
Nobody who was hand-picked by DNC leadership. The whole point of an open fair primary system is to see which particular issues/candidates match the (initially unknown) mood of the current electorate. Without that any leadership pick is somewhere between “you’re trying to win the last election not this one” and “'your pick is living in a total bubble”. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-could-have-won/1009829/49 "2024-11-07T18:30:07Z")
You know who could have won? Joe Biden. He is the only one ever to have beaten Trump. Trump ran against women twice and beat them both. And he is a white man, a comfortable grandfather type. All he had to do was stay awake during that one debate… ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-could-have-won/1009829/50 "2024-11-07T18:50:40Z")
> [@squidfood](#): > > Nobody who was hand-picked by DNC leadership. I suspect this is the most correct answer. Have a completely open primary and see who really connects with the voters. Will the DNC accept that smoke filled back rooms are so last century? Probably not, but you can always hope. For those suggesting Biden would have won, the poll numbers don’t support that. While polls have taken a great hit to credibility lately, I think the Biden/Trump ones are pretty on point. Simply because they’ve overblown democrat popularity and Biden has been hammered. So if the polls have been generous to liberals, Joe would have fared far worse than the polls suggested. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-could-have-won/1009829/51 "2024-11-07T18:57:02Z")
When was the last time truly open primaries were held despite incumbent president wanting to run for re-election? ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-could-have-won/1009829/52 "2024-11-07T19:06:32Z")
No argument, but how else is leadership going to find out the true vox populi? As mentioned above, polls are of completely questionable reliability. Whether they’re asking the wrong people or if people are giving answers they think they want to hear is a topic for another thread. ---
**Author:** ![WreckingCrew](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wreckingcrew/32/4080_2.png) [@WreckingCrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WreckingCrew)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-could-have-won/1009829/53 "2024-11-07T19:09:42Z")
Ted Kennedy running against Carter in 1980 ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-could-have-won/1009829/54 "2024-11-07T19:11:36Z")
So it’s rarely done. And once Biden dropped out after the first debate, there really wasn’t time for a full slate of primaries, or really any. So _practically speaking_, who else could have been chosen and how? ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-could-have-won/1009829/55 "2024-11-07T19:12:27Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Interesting, I didn’t know about that origin - I’ve only seen left leaning people (some very left) use it - but, I guess I wasn’t watching online conservatives in 2016, so that tracks! Oh yeah. The roots are deeper than that, originally in Black vernacular it meant the way that a crack “freebase” addict will behave in a way that’s oblivious to everything except getting more crack. Then rapper Lil B kind of remade it into “being yourself, don’t give a damn”. Then around 2016 the groypers took it over, and now everybody’s using it. ---
**Author:** ![Chad\_Sudan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chad_sudan/32/4509_2.png) [@Chad\_Sudan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chad_Sudan)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-could-have-won/1009829/56 "2024-11-07T19:26:06Z")
Right! And – open primary or no – Gavin Newsom and Gretchen Whitmer, who were among the only other potential contenders with a national profile, both said they would not run against Harris. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-could-have-won/1009829/57 "2024-11-07T19:30:56Z")
Initially, I was cool on Kamala Harris (partly for stories about how she worked with her staff as vice-president) but once she was running, she was really good, especially with how she countered Trump. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-could-have-won/1009829/58 "2024-11-07T19:32:29Z")
> [@Projammer](#): > > I suspect this is the most correct answer. Have a completely open primary and see who really connects with the voters. Will the DNC accept that smoke filled back rooms are so last century? Probably not, but you can always hope. In defense of smoke-filled rooms, the old-school political machines wouldn’t have run a candidate that was very possibly too old to serve out two terms back in 2020, and would have avoided the race to the left that left Harris in political no man’s land and tarred her with Biden’s promise to pick a woman for vp. Not to mention they’d probably do a better job laying the groundwork for thr next generation instead of leaving us with old people from the Obama administration. I think open primaries are great for finding people like Obama that are great politicians who buck the conventional wisdom of their day, but sometimes they miss fairly obvious things that lead to where 2024 ended up. It didn’t help that the rest of the 2020 primary field sucked - the path now should probably be purple or red state governors. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-could-have-won/1009829/59 "2024-11-07T19:42:59Z")
Either I’m misunderstanding you or you misunderstood me. Wasn’t it the old-school political machine that put Biden on the ballet in 2020? Or was there an open primary I missed? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-could-have-won/1009829/60 "2024-11-07T19:47:32Z")
[2020 Democratic Party presidential primaries](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries) on Wikipedia. “A total of 29 major candidates declared their candidacies for the primaries.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-could-have-won/1009829.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-could-have-won/1009829.md?page=4)