# Who created the hobbits in Tolkein's Universe? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 26, 2008, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-created-the-hobbits-in-tolkeins-universe/469632 "2008-10-26T14:45:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Q](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/898d66/32.png) [@Johnny\_Q](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Q)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2008, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-created-the-hobbits-in-tolkeins-universe/469632/21 "2008-10-27T19:53:02Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > 😃 I’ve always thought he was the proto-type for Arthur Dent. The two were rather similar in many ways. “You’re a jerk, Baggins. A complete kneebiter.” ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2008, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-created-the-hobbits-in-tolkeins-universe/469632/22 "2008-10-27T23:51:31Z")
Didn’t Tolkien describe Smeagol as ‘river folk, not unlike a hobbit’ in the trilogy? That would imply a later split between hobbits and the rest of men. ---
**Author:** ![Offkenter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/f08c70/32.png) [@Offkenter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Offkenter)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-created-the-hobbits-in-tolkeins-universe/469632/23 "2008-10-28T00:27:47Z")
> [@Johnny\_Q](#): > > “You’re a jerk, Baggins. A complete kneebiter.” [NITPICK] That was a quote from Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged, who is obviously \*Gandalf’s \*HHG analog. How about this: “You’re a multiple-me murderer Baggins! What do you want from me? Blood?!?” Nah. Your was funnier [/NITPICK] ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-created-the-hobbits-in-tolkeins-universe/469632/24 "2008-10-28T00:50:32Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > Didn’t Tolkien describe Smeagol as ‘river folk, not unlike a hobbit’ in the trilogy? That would imply a later split between hobbits and the rest of men. He has Gandalf describe Smeagol’s people as “of hobbit-kind, akin to the fathers of the fathers of the Stoors” ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-created-the-hobbits-in-tolkeins-universe/469632/25 "2008-10-28T00:52:59Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > Didn’t Tolkien describe Smeagol as ‘river folk, not unlike a hobbit’ in the trilogy? That would imply a later split between hobbits and the rest of men. Gollum was Stoorish in nature. In other words very close to the Hobbits. Far closer than he was to men. Whenever the split happens the Hobbits escaped the notice of history until part way through the third age. The DrĂședain (Woses) at least were in the historical record of the first age and even a smallish group in NĂșmenor. Some believe the NĂșmenoran DrĂședain fled NĂșmenor long before the downfall and rejoined their kin in Middle Earth. The DrĂședain are explicitly stated to be men though. The Hobbits may well be sharers in the gift of men without absolutely ever having branched off of men. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-created-the-hobbits-in-tolkeins-universe/469632/26 "2008-10-28T00:56:19Z")
(because my edit time is up) I think his people are conceptualized as a group of Stoors who fled east of the Misty Mountains (Maybe fleeing Angamar’s attack on the Northern Dunedain?) and settling down by the River Gladden. They were probably destroyed as a people in one of the wars between the dwarves and the orcs. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-created-the-hobbits-in-tolkeins-universe/469632/27 "2008-10-28T01:00:14Z")
> [@Offkenter](#): > > [NITPICK] > > That was a quote from Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged, who is obviously \*Gandalf’s \*HHG analog. > How about this: > > “You’re a multiple-me murderer Baggins! What do you want from me? Blood?!?” > > Nah. Your was funnier > > [/NITPICK] [NITPICK NITPICK] Wowbagger isn’t HHG’s Gandalf analogue; Slartibartfast is. [/NITPICK NITPICK] _So, Doper pedants observe, a nit Hath smaller nits which on him sit; And these have smaller still for pickin’ ‘Til bystanders deem your ass needs kickin.’_ Jonathan Swift is to blame ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-created-the-hobbits-in-tolkeins-universe/469632/28 "2008-10-28T01:05:49Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Gollum was Stoorish in nature. In other words very close to the Hobbits. Far closer than he was to men. Well, I’d go beyond saying “very close to the Hobbits” and say that he WAS a Hobbit
that that the Stoors were a nation of Hobbits. Unfortunately, we don’t know much about the early history of the Races of Men before the Houses of the Edain. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-created-the-hobbits-in-tolkeins-universe/469632/29 "2008-10-28T01:51:58Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Well, I’d go beyond saying “very close to the Hobbits” and say that he WAS a Hobbit
that that the Stoors were a nation of Hobbits. > > Unfortunately, we don’t know much about the early history of the Races of Men before the Houses of the Edain. I feel as though Tolkien was careful treating Smeagol’s people as slightly separate from the Hobbits of the Shire and Bree. So I choose to follow his lead. I’ll settle for Stoorish as opposed to Hobbits. Maybe what made Hobbits, Hobbits was the blending of the three types together. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-created-the-hobbits-in-tolkeins-universe/469632.md?page=1)