# Who decides “proper” pronunciation?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [June 2, 2025, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111 "2025-06-02T18:12:44Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Dirtymartini](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dirtymartini)
#### Post date: [June 2, 2025, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/1 "2025-06-02T18:12:44Z")
There definitely seems to be two camps on the issue.
“Xxxxx” is properly pronounced “xxxxXxx” based on historical, linguistics, or other factual parameters.
“Xxxxx” is pronounced “Xxxhxx” by 99% of people, so that’s the “proper” pronunciation.
I hope this qualifies for great debates. Creating new topics isn’t my forte.
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### Author:  [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)
#### Post date: [June 2, 2025, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/2 "2025-06-02T18:14:54Z")
> [@Dirtymartini](#):
>
> Creating new topics isn’t my forte.
Most people pronounce “forte” wrong.
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### Author:  [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)
#### Post date: [June 2, 2025, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/3 "2025-06-02T18:26:27Z")
No one “decides;” unlike some countries and languages (probably most notably the [Académie Française](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acad%C3%A9mie_Fran%C3%A7aise) for French), American English does not have a regulatory organization which dictates such things.
The “proper” pronunciation (well, really, the “standard” or “accepted” pronunciation) is ultimately the product of how the word is used by people in everyday conversation – and that can, and does, change and evolve over time.
FWIW, definition of words undergoes the same organic evolution. Even dictionaries – arguably the “source of truth” for words – will revise and update the information on a word’s pronunciation and definition if and when it evolves. Think about it this way: English dictionaries don’t really dictate what the creator believes a word’s pronunciation and definition _should_ be, so much as documenting how the word is actually used.
For example, the word “anxious” traditionally means “worried, fearful, uneasy of mind,” and connotes a negative state of mind; despite this, I’ve frequently seen and heard people use the word when what they really mean is “eager.” Because the word has become so often used as a synonym for “eager,” dictionaries (for example, [Merriam-Webster](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anxious)) have begun to show an additional definition of the word as “ardently or earnestly wishing.”
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### Author:  [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)
#### Post date: [June 2, 2025, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/4 "2025-06-02T18:29:21Z")
> [@Procrustus](#):
>
> Most people pronounce “forte” wrong.
It’s spelled “forte,” but it’s pronounced “throatwobbler mangrove.”
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### Author:  [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)
#### Post date: [June 2, 2025, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/5 "2025-06-02T18:32:46Z")
Who decides? I guess I do. I’ve never been going to the kitchen for water: it’s always “goin’ tuh thuh kitchn’ fer some wadder.”
The weirdest bit is the only correctly pronounced word “some.” Some sort of water? Some amount of water? A whole glass or just pertnear full? Dunno, I’m just thirsty sumpn’ fierce.
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### Author:  [@PlaceboTarget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlaceboTarget)
#### Post date: [June 2, 2025, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/6 "2025-06-02T18:34:29Z")
No one. It’s absolutely random and arbitrary.
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### Author:  [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)
#### Post date: [June 2, 2025, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/7 "2025-06-02T18:42:42Z")
For what it’s worth, my wife is a retired elementary-school teacher. It absolutely grinds her gears when she hears a word pronounced or used “incorrectly,” and she can’t restrain herself from audibly correcting it (even if she’s just talking to the television). However, her definition of “correct” is based on what she learned in school, in the 1970s and 1980s, and she absolutely hates that language changes: she sees any such changes as lazy and flat-out _wrong_.
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### Author:  [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)
#### Post date: [June 2, 2025, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/8 "2025-06-02T18:46:45Z")
My 7th grade English teacher said it should be “fort”, but then others have said, well, if that’s because it’s based on French, then it should be “for” or something. In order to resolve that problem, I pronounce it “strength” or sometimes “strong point”.
I’m sure if I look in the dictionary, it will have for, fort, fortay, because what’s what people say, so that’s what it will show. And, someone here will explain that it has been fortay in English since Chaucer used it or something, etc.
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### Author:  [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)
#### Post date: [June 2, 2025, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/9 "2025-06-02T18:49:27Z")
> [@RitterSport](#):
>
> I’m sure if I look in the dictionary, it will have for, fort, fortay, because what’s what people say, so that’s what it will show.
in fact, the [Merriam-Webster dictionary](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/forte) lists _for-TAY_ first, and _fort_ second, and has a lengthy paragraph on variations in the word’s pronunciation – I particularly like the sentence I’ve bolded below:
> [@](#):
>
> In _forte_ we have a word derived from French that in its “strong point” sense has no entirely satisfactory pronunciation. Usage writers have denigrated \ˈfȯr-ˌtā\ and \ˈfȯr-tē\ because they reflect the influence of the Italian-derived [forte entry 2](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/forte#h2). Their recommended pronunciation \ˈfȯrt, however, does not exactly reflect French either: the French would write the word _le fort_ and would pronounce it more similar to English _for._ **So you can take your choice, knowing that someone somewhere will dislike whichever variant you choose.** All are standard, however. In British English \ˈfȯ-ˌtā\ and \ˈfȯt\ predominate; \ˈfȯr-ˌtā\ and \fȯr-ˈtā\ are probably the most frequent pronunciations in American English.
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### Author:  [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)
#### Post date: [June 2, 2025, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/10 "2025-06-02T18:52:56Z")
I’m sure my 7th grade English teacher grinds his teeth when he hears fortay. In fact, he mentioned it back then (late '70s, I guess?) and it still bugs me when people say fortay, even though it’s apparently just as, or even more, correct.
Seems like a word that’s wisely avoided. I don’t even see what value it adds over “strength” anyway.
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### Author:  [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)
#### Post date: [June 2, 2025, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/11 "2025-06-02T18:54:21Z")
You have to figure Algernon pronounces it “for-tay” in _The Importance of Being Earnest_ when he says
> As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte.
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### Author:  [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)
#### Post date: [June 2, 2025, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/12 "2025-06-02T18:54:47Z")
> [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](#):
>
> > [@Procrustus](#):
> >
> > Most people pronounce “forte” wrong.
>
> It’s spelled “forte,” but it’s pronounced “throatwobbler mangrove.”
Which in turn is pronounced “Luxury Yacht”.
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### Author:  [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)
#### Post date: [June 2, 2025, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/13 "2025-06-02T18:56:13Z")
> [@RitterSport](#):
>
> Seems like a word that’s wisely avoided. I don’t even see what value it adds over “strength” anyway.
It’s more precise, since it doesn’t also mean strength in the sense of being able to lift heavy weights.
“His strength is his strength” makes sense because the word strength is being used in two different ways.
“His forte is his forte” doesn’t make sense because it doesn’t have that second meaning.
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### Author:  [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)
#### Post date: [June 2, 2025, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/14 "2025-06-02T18:57:25Z")
I guess. It always just seemed pretentious to me, and with the pronunciation ambiguity, best avoided.
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### Author:  [@Dirtymartini](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dirtymartini)
#### Post date: [June 2, 2025, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/15 "2025-06-02T19:08:07Z")
It wasn’t my intention to debate particular words.
It’s the overall two mindsets on the issue. Which have already been expressed in this thread.
Regardless of the word, why do you fell strongly on it’s pronunciation?
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### Author:  [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)
#### Post date: [June 2, 2025, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/16 "2025-06-02T19:12:24Z")
Moderating:
Not really a Great Debate, more of an In My Humble Opinion. Moving.
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### Author:  [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)
#### Post date: [June 2, 2025, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/17 "2025-06-02T19:13:50Z")
> [@Dirtymartini](#):
>
> Regardless of the word, why do you fell strongly on it’s pronunciation?
I’m not a linguist, but at the ground level, I suspect it comes down to something like this. One person, for whatever reason, starts talking differently. Maybe they have a speech impediment. Maybe they just think their way sounds cooler. Either way, they start talking differently, and then other people around them start talking in this new way. Eventually younger people, who have only ever heard this new way of talking, consider it normal since that’s what they grew up with. My hypothesis is that last part (young people who have only ever heard some new way of talking) is a lot less common these days due to TV, the internet, etc., and that thus language is changing a lot more slowly. That could be why we even have a notion of what a “correct” way of speaking is.
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### Author:  [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)
#### Post date: [June 2, 2025, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/18 "2025-06-02T19:19:47Z")
As one linguistics expert said, “The difference between mispronunciation and pronunciation is time.” Our language is chockablock with words that aren’t pronounced as they once were.
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### Author:  [@Dirtymartini](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dirtymartini)
#### Post date: [June 2, 2025, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/19 "2025-06-02T19:28:45Z")
Is there something wrong with saying SEE-gar or SEE-ment pond? Lots of people pronounce it like that?
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### Author:  [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)
#### Post date: [June 2, 2025, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/20 "2025-06-02T19:33:21Z")
If lots of people pronounce it like that, then it’s fine. What does Webster say?
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