# Who decides “proper” pronunciation? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 2, 2025, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111 "2025-06-02T18:12:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2025, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/221 "2025-06-10T00:50:47Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > but foy-yer is by far the preferred pronunciation. Yep, I hear it foy-yer more often than foy-yay, esp in younger people. . ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2025, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/222 "2025-06-10T00:52:01Z")
I’m the same way with ‘avoirdupois’ and ‘lion couchant,’ although those are not words I have much opportunity to say very often. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2025, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/223 "2025-06-10T00:53:00Z")
That’s funny—for me it was the older people in the late 80s when I learned the word using foy-YER and I got a bit of side eye from them for saying foy-YAY, so it was the oldsters who got me off what they probably assumed was my pretentious high horse. ---
**Author:** ![scudsucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scudsucker/32/14101_2.png) [@scudsucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scudsucker)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2025, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/224 "2025-06-10T18:41:47Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Who decides? Self-appointed pedants. Don’t talk about my mother like that! I jest, but she was a career English language/literature teacher. She also taught me to speak Chaucerian English before it was cool - I read it in school. We had a 33rpm record of the “Knights Tale” on one side; I do not remember the other side. But I was listening to and reading from the record inserts at around age 12. We started Shakespeare at 14, Chaucer at 16 at school, so I was an outlier in that class. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2025, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/225 "2025-06-10T20:25:42Z")
Just heard a Jennie Garth spot on Ozempic, and she pronounces “insurance” with the stress on the first syllable. Not as exaggerated the way [this chap](https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=562274015215414) does it, but still noticeable. She’s originally from Illinoiz. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2025, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/226 "2025-06-10T20:33:13Z")
Maybe she’s trying to become the modern version of Wilford Brinkley saying “diabeetus.” ---
**Author:** ![fedman1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e495f1/32.png) [@fedman1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fedman1)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2025, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/227 "2025-06-11T00:21:18Z")
as a side note, American English being confusing, the word “project” has different meanings depending on whether you accent the “pro” or the “ject” ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2025, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/228 "2025-06-11T00:29:55Z")
There’s a whole list of such words - generally one is a noun, with the stress on the first syllable and the other is a verb with the stress on the second. Record, conduct, present, progress, suspect, conflict are the ones I can think of offhand- there are many more. Although I’m not sure it’s restricted to American English. ---
**Author:** ![fedman1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e495f1/32.png) [@fedman1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fedman1)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2025, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/229 "2025-06-11T00:33:31Z")
but in case i cited, you also have 2 different meanings: PROject, task to perform, or proJECT, push forward ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2025, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/230 "2025-06-11T00:41:57Z")
So do all the ones I listed - As a noun, “present” (as in a gift) is stressed on the first syllable (PRES-ent). As a verb (to give a gift), it’s stressed on the second syllable (pre-SENT). As a noun (a piece of music), it’s stressed on the first syllable (REC-ord). As a verb (to make a recording), it’s stressed on the second syllable (re-CORD). As a noun (behavior), it’s stressed on the first syllable (CON-duct). As a verb (to lead), it’s stressed on the second syllable (con-DUCT). As a noun ( a person thought to be guilty) it’s stressed on the first syllable (SUS-pect). As a verb (to believe something is true ), it’s stressed on the second syllable (sus-PECT). As a noun (advancement), it’s stressed on the first syllable (PRO-gress). As a verb (to advance), it’s stressed on the second syllable (pro-GRESS). ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2025, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/231 "2025-06-11T00:47:51Z")
That’s also true of every word @doreen cited. Most have several meanings, in fact. And the noun and verb meanings of [project](https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=project) both stem from Latin words meaning a plan or to plan. ninjaed while I looked stuff up. ---
**Author:** ![fedman1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e495f1/32.png) [@fedman1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fedman1)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2025, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/232 "2025-06-11T01:31:09Z")
sorry, my bad, no offense meant ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2025, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/233 "2025-06-11T04:30:21Z")
> [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](#): > > I’m the same way with ‘avoirdupois’ and ‘lion couchant,’ although those are not words I have much opportunity to say very often. Huh. Do many people really say “avoirdupois” more like “a-voiyer-du-poise” than the Frenchish “a-vwar-du-pwah”? I don’t think I’ve ever heard anybody say “lion couchant”, but I can well believe that it’s been largely anglicized to “Lyin’ Couch Ant” or thereabouts. Me, I even still stick to the “shezz lonng” pronunciation of what I think most English speakers more reasonably call a “Shay’s Lounge”.\* (\*) chaise longue, in case anyone was really mystified. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2025, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/234 "2025-06-11T11:54:58Z")
I split the difference on those: “a-VOR-du-poy” and “CHAY’s Lounge”. 😉 Although I say “CHAY’s Lounge” about 3x week and think of it nearly every day since I have one and use it often. I last said “a-VOR-du-poy” out loud probably 20 years ago. And think of it only when I happen to read it and therefore “hear” it in my head. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2025, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/235 "2025-06-11T20:35:47Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > I don’t think I’ve ever heard anybody say “lion couchant”, SCA Heraldry. [quote=“Kimstu, post:233, topic:1019111”] Me, I even still stick to the “shezz lonng” pronunciation of what I think most English speakers more reasonably call a “Shay’s Lounge”.\* [/quote]’ I say “couch”. Or recliner. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2025, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/236 "2025-06-11T21:06:06Z")
When the English band Wet Leg came out with their hit “Chaise Longue,” imagine how mystified their American fans became, before they learned what it meant. If the song were a big enough hit, maybe it could switch Americans over to the original pronunciation. However, it isn’t. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/Zd9jeJk2UHQ/maxresdefault.jpg "Wet Leg - Chaise Longue (Official Video)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zd9jeJk2UHQ) ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2025, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/237 "2025-06-11T21:22:33Z")
It also appears in, of all places, in an interview with a Titanic survivor, where, going from memory here, he described the berg as having an outline resembling a lion couchant or the Rock of Gibraltar. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2025, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/238 "2025-06-11T23:06:01Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I say “couch”. Or recliner. They’re all sofas to me. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2025, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/239 "2025-06-11T23:58:55Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > They’re all sofas to me. That too. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111.md?page=11)