# Who decides “proper” pronunciation? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 2, 2025, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111 "2025-06-02T18:12:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/41 "2025-06-02T21:06:30Z")
“. . . Most people drop the first “r.” Because that’s just plain wrong.” Maybe not most people, but [most Americans do.](https://theweek.com/articles/451672/whats-correct-pronunciation-february) Sorry, don’t wan’t to continue this hijack, but thanks for participating. ---
**Author:** ![Dirtymartini](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e4f/32.png) [@Dirtymartini](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dirtymartini)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/42 "2025-06-02T21:07:09Z")
I think the difference in our point of views might be the interpretation of other threads on the topic. I find the debates about the pronunciation of say “forte” demeaning to the common person. It has been surprising to me nobody, or maybe a few in jest, defends the pronunciation of certain words. ---
**Author:** ![Zoobi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/13edae/32.png) [@Zoobi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoobi)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/43 "2025-06-02T21:07:55Z")
There’s certainly judgement when one is calling other pronunciations “lazy” and one claims there are ways words are “supposed” to be said. It’s a lot of classism and racism in the end though. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/44 "2025-06-02T21:10:11Z")
This is just the BBC deciding how the BBC will do it though, not how the language ‘should’ be spoken by anyone outside of that scope. ---
**Author:** ![Reply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reply/32/15952_2.png) [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/45 "2025-06-02T21:11:14Z")
The NY Times had an old but fun quiz about this, with a heatmap that it generates for you at the end: [The U.S. Dialect Quiz: How Y’all, Youse and You Guys Talk - The New York Times](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/upshot/dialect-quiz-map.html) (not just pronunciations but regionalisms in general) [![](https://kagi.com/proxy/Screen-Shot-2014-01-02-at-3.08.34-PM-700x895.png?c=NErKohyij8wWe7ISfrWKZlaUSJgTa0t-oaQzSklStDXtsVBV8wjgQIJwK1RhAyUsBnoW9A0-VzKENJL4vXQjFnVlHIuWFIE3gIARWJicn5w3vJkD5oHvmoPwb1OWzVpQ7j-6ZQqneS9V1AoIz74k46GTAqxvXWNygkaTMrK-Fnw%3D) ](https://kagi.com/proxy/Screen-Shot-2014-01-02-at-3.08.34-PM-700x895.png?c=NErKohyij8wWe7ISfrWKZlaUSJgTa0t-oaQzSklStDXtsVBV8wjgQIJwK1RhAyUsBnoW9A0-VzKENJL4vXQjFnVlHIuWFIE3gIARWJicn5w3vJkD5oHvmoPwb1OWzVpQ7j-6ZQqneS9V1AoIz74k46GTAqxvXWNygkaTMrK-Fnw%3D) Cambridge too: [The Cambridge Online Survey of World Englishes](http://www.tekstlab.uio.no/cambridge_survey/) Like “aunt” (ant vs awn-t vs ahn-t): [![](https://fightingignorance.org/b589dae3-6425-4c52-a377-f400b5d95644-the-cambridge-online-survey-of-world-englishes-june-02-02-10-19-pm-2x.jpg) ](https://fightingignorance.org/b589dae3-6425-4c52-a377-f400b5d95644-the-cambridge-online-survey-of-world-englishes-june-02-02-10-19-pm-2x.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/46 "2025-06-02T21:17:02Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > … were all born and raised in Alabama or Georgia. They _all_ pronounce the word as “IN-sure-ance.” It’s a regionalism. I am neither disputing that it’s a regionalism nor being judgmental about it, but rather speculating on how the peculiar emphasis on the first syllable came to be, and it does seem likely to be by association with the negation prefix in words where it really is a negation. I don’t hang out in places like Georgia and Alabama but from police bodycam videos I’ve seen of “interesting” traffic stops in those areas, I grant you that “proof of IN-surance” is what cops there frequently ask for. ---
**Author:** ![Dirtymartini](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e4f/32.png) [@Dirtymartini](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dirtymartini)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/47 "2025-06-02T21:19:10Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > I am neither disputing that it’s a regionalism nor being judgmental about it, but rather speculating on how the peculiar emphasis on the first syllable came to be, and it does seem likely to be by association with the negation prefix in words where it really is a negation. I don’t hang out in places like Georgia and Alabama but from police bodycam videos I’ve seen of “interesting” traffic stops in those areas, I grant you that “proof of IN-surance” is what cops there frequently ask for. But you think it is the wrong pronunciation. Why? What is the proper pronunciation of insurance? ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/48 "2025-06-02T21:25:19Z")
> [@Dirtymartini](#): > > But you think it is the wrong pronunciation. > > Why?   You were the one who used the word “wrong”, and I was the one who said it was not an appropriate adjective in discussing pronunciation: > [@wolfpup](#): > > > [@Dirtymartini](#): > > > > Is there something wrong with saying SEE-gar or SEE-ment pond? Lots of people pronounce it like that? > > It’s the judgmental word “wrong” that’s inappropriate here. Those pronunciations aren’t inherently “wrong”, but they do carry a stigma that some may wish to avoid. To be even more clear, “IN-surance” is a regionalism. It so happens that it would be considered very unusual in **my** region, so I was curious about its possible origins. ---
**Author:** ![Dirtymartini](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e4f/32.png) [@Dirtymartini](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dirtymartini)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/49 "2025-06-02T21:37:32Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > To be even more clear, “IN-surance” is a regionalism. What is the non-regional proper pronunciation of insurance? Regionalism is not a compliment. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/50 "2025-06-02T21:39:07Z")
> **[INSURANCE | Pronunciation in English](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/pronunciation/english/insurance)** > > INSURANCE pronunciation. How to say INSURANCE. Listen to the audio pronunciation in English. Learn more. ---
**Author:** ![Reply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reply/32/15952_2.png) [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/51 "2025-06-02T21:39:22Z")
> [@Dirtymartini](#): > > What is the non-regional proper pronunciation of insurance? Most of the world just calls it “healthcare”… ---
**Author:** ![Dirtymartini](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e4f/32.png) [@Dirtymartini](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dirtymartini)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/52 "2025-06-02T21:43:41Z")
You could have saved us a lot of time if you just told us the Cambridge dictionary was the one to decide how to pronounce words ---
**Author:** ![Dirtymartini](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e4f/32.png) [@Dirtymartini](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dirtymartini)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/53 "2025-06-02T21:47:48Z")
> **[FORTE | Pronunciation in English](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/pronunciation/english/forte)** > > FORTE pronunciation. How to say FORTE. Listen to the audio pronunciation in English. Learn more. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/54 "2025-06-02T21:49:35Z")
IDK. I like my “regionalisms” and will continue to use them. It’s not like I’m invited to a banquet at the palace or making an important speech. But, I may have to talk to my agent. About my coverage on my car IN-surance. Not sure how else to say that word. It kinda spells itself out like it reads. Clearly it was named improperly. That’s the problem. We the peeps jes’ talk like we talks. I have trouble being understood for various reasons, when I do get a sentence out, everyone seems to understand. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/55 "2025-06-02T21:54:35Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > I like my “regionalisms” and will continue to use them. No one ever said there was anything “wrong” with regionalisms. There appear to be one or two posters here just wanting to start an argument. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/56 "2025-06-02T21:58:16Z")
> [@Dirtymartini](#): > > It has been surprising to me nobody, or maybe a few in jest, defends the pronunciation of certain words. That’s because the more uncommon a word is, the fewer chances a person will have to hear it pronounced, and therefore just makes a guess based on extrapolation off the pronunciation of more familiar words. These alternate pronunciations sometimes became common enough to be considered “proper.” That some dialects are considered less formal, less learned, or less couth contribute to this but are subsets of the overall phenomenon. I remember reading a list of words given to radio announcers in the old days that tested whether they could pronounce them “properly.” I can’t find it online, but IIRC I’d guess that most of those “proper” pronunciations would be considered quaint, affected, or obsolete these days. Pronunciation changes far more rapidly than spelling (although not as quickly as new meanings accrue.) Here’s a short version of a test supposedly from the 1920s. > **[Would You Have Passed This 1920s Pronunciation Test?](https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/91871/would-you-have-passed-1920s-pronunciation-test)** > > “Penelope Cholmondely raised her azure eyes from the crabbed scenario” is just the beginning. > _“Penelope Cholmondely raised her azure eyes from the crabbed scenario. She meandered among the congeries of her memoirs. There was the Kinetic Algernon, a choleric artificer of icons and triptychs, who wanted to write a trilogy. For years she had stifled her risibilities with dour moods. His asthma caused him to sough like the zephyrs among the tamarack.”_ The article notes that azure has eight dictionary pronunciations. But only one spelling. Demanding adherence to a single set of pronunciations is a futile endeavor. Yet that does not mean that words can’t be mispronounced. Some can, some are given more leeway. (Well, to fend off online pedanticists, all words _can_ be mispronounced, but some have virtually universal pronunciations, especially common words.) ---
**Author:** ![Dirtymartini](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e4f/32.png) [@Dirtymartini](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dirtymartini)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/57 "2025-06-02T22:03:56Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > IDK. I like my “regionalisms” and will continue to use them. There is nothing wrong with the way you pronounce words. Your use of the English language is as valid as William Shakespeare ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/58 "2025-06-02T22:03:59Z")
There is a road in my town called “The Slough”. You may well think to pronounce it to rhyme with cow, but the locals rhyme it with ruff. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/59 "2025-06-02T22:05:30Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > My 7th grade English teacher said it should be “fort”, but then others have said, well, if that’s because it’s based on French, then it should be “for” or something. In order to resolve that problem, I pronounce it “strength” or sometimes “strong point”. I agree with your English teacher. The t is not silent because of the e that follows. I tend to be prescriptive, but the rational part of my brain says that’s silly. Words change, languages change and there really is no “correct” pronunciation, usage, etc. The distinction between disinterested and uninterested has disappeared and that represents a loss of a useful distinction, but that’s the way it is. I always say, for example, “It’s me”, although I know that logically, it ought to be “It am I”. I had a good friend named Wells who always had to spell it out because in his Georgia dialect (the one between SC and FL, not the former Soviet state) it always sounded like Wales. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/60 "2025-06-02T22:10:58Z")
Gotcha. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111.md?page=4)