# Who decides “proper” pronunciation? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 2, 2025, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111 "2025-06-02T18:12:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/61 "2025-06-02T22:21:46Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > There is a road in my town called “The Slough”. Which around these parts, would be pronounced “slew.” ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/62 "2025-06-02T22:24:36Z")
Moderating: > [@Dirtymartini](#): > > You could have saved us a lot of time if you just told us the Cambridge dictionary was the one to decide how to pronounce words People have opinions about these things. They’re entitled to express them without being subjected to personal attacks. You don’t have to like the answers given, but that doesn’t give you a basis to be a jerk. Dial it back. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/63 "2025-06-02T22:30:59Z")
I studied theatre and broadcasting in college (50 years ago) and I took a class in “proper US pronunciation”. I can’t remember the actual name of the class, but this was the textbook. > **[A Pronouncing Dictionary of American English: John Samuel Kenyon, Thomas Albert...](https://www.amazon.com/Pronouncing-Dictionary-American-English/dp/0877790477)** > > A Pronouncing Dictionary of American English \[John Samuel Kenyon, Thomas Albert Knott\] on Amazon.com. \*FREE\* shipping on qualifying offers. A Pronouncing Dictionary of American English ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/64 "2025-06-02T22:51:27Z")
I don’t even pronounce the same word the same way twice on the same day - for some words like ‘either’ - sometimes it feels like it should start ‘ee’, sometimes ‘eye’. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/65 "2025-06-02T22:55:03Z")
Same with “neither.” I suspect there’s some rule we’re following that dictates when we use which one, but it’s not obvious to me what it is. ---
**Author:** ![Dirtymartini](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e4f/32.png) [@Dirtymartini](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dirtymartini)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/66 "2025-06-02T23:06:18Z")
Please move this thread to the pit. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/67 "2025-06-02T23:06:53Z")
Odds that the person objecting to cee-ment confuses it with concrete no matter the pronunciation? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/68 "2025-06-02T23:11:08Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > I don’t even pronounce the same word the same way twice on the same day - for some words like ‘either’ - sometimes it feels like it should start ‘ee’, sometimes ‘eye’. Better to just call the whole thing off. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/69 "2025-06-02T23:30:36Z")
I have shared this story many times. Here it is again. While I was working for a small company selling medical sensors and software, I got to speak with a neuroscientist on the phone. I was very curious about his research. He was kind enough to explain it- in ways and terms that I could understand, and to answer a few questions. He was obviously a brilliant man. He spoke in the thickest Canadian accent I have ever heard. Compared to him, Wolverine sounded cultured and refined. I didn’t judge him on how he pronounced words. I judged him by the content of our conversation and his clear mastery of the subject. Here in Pennsylvania, we have some things named after the Dauphin. Everybody in the region says “daw finn”. The correct French pronunciation is a lot closer to “doh fan”. I don’t correct people who say “daw finn”. I say “daw finn” because otherwise nobody knows what I am talking about. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2025, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/70 "2025-06-03T00:00:23Z")
> [@Dirtymartini](#): > > Please move this thread to the pit. Please dont. It was a good thread, it can be again. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2025, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/71 "2025-06-03T00:23:55Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > To be even more clear, “IN-surance” is a regionalism. Huh? I hear in-_sure_-ants Or do you mean that in the USA the second syllable is generally stressed? Not the first? > [@bob\_2](#): > > There is a road in my town called “The Slough”. > > You may well think to pronounce it to rhyme with cow, but the locals rhyme it with ruff. It is pronounced around here- and I guess in England? as close to “slow”- as in “slow horses”. As I posted before, apparently “Forte” is pronounced one way if it is music, and another if it is your strong point- like fort- but even that is just the most common, not the “RIGHT” way. The pronunciation may be changing over to Fort-tay, who knows? If you say it either way, I will not correct you- ulness you pronounce the _music_ version like 'fort". ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2025, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/72 "2025-06-03T00:25:02Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > If you say it either way, I will not correct you- ulness you pronounce the _music_ version like 'fort". If you’re SNL’s Time-Travelling Scott Joplin, the opposite of “forte” is “pee-anny.” ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2025, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/73 "2025-06-03T00:28:43Z")
Language experts divide into two camps: prescriptionists and descriptionists. The former tell people how things are pronounced; the latter describe how people pronounce things. Descriptionists hold the upper hand these days. Pronunciation changes over time and as more people use one, it becomes standard. An interesting case is “falcon.” In _The Maltese Falcon_, Bogart pronounces it “FAW-con.” Same with the radio/movie series “The Falcon” of the same era. Now it’s nearly always pronounced “FAL-con” to put it in line with how it’s spelled. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2025, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/74 "2025-06-03T00:55:59Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I hear in-_sure_-ants That’s what I hear as well. The emphasis in all three of Wolfpup’s examples (insurance, infallible, insincere ) is on the second syllable for me, not IN- . ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2025, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/75 "2025-06-03T01:02:29Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Same with “neither.” I suspect there’s some rule we’re following that dictates when we use which one, but it’s not obvious to me what it is. The explanation I’ve heard is that the pre-Georgian pronunciation in England was “neether / eether”, but when the Hanoverians came over, it became fashionable to pronounce that pair of words to match the German pronunciation of “ei” (as in “ein”), so the pronunciation shifted to “niither” / “iither”. Don’t know if that’s accurate or just a back-formation. ---
**Author:** ![Topologist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/topologist/32/3208_2.png) [@Topologist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Topologist)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2025, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/76 "2025-06-03T01:14:17Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > The emphasis in all three of Wolfpup’s examples (insurance, infallible, insincere ) is on the second syllable for me, not IN- . The point was that a common southern American pronunciation does put the accent on the prefix “in-”. Do you really pronounce “insincere” with the accent on the second syllable? What I usually hear is the primary accent on the third, with a secondary accent on the first. ---
**Author:** ![XOldiesJock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/ec9cab/32.png) [@XOldiesJock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XOldiesJock)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2025, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/77 "2025-06-03T01:14:59Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > _I guess I do. I’ve never been going to the kitchen for water: it’s always “goin’ tuh thuh kitchn’ fer some wadder.”_ Where I live, it’s pronounced **“wooder.”** Like wood, with an “er” attached. Many years ago, I worked for a small TV station that had a local newscast. (My title was News Director, but I was the street reporter, videographer, writer, producer and co-anchor. I said it was small.) But I digress. The young lady who did the weather was a local. We tried in vain to break her of “wooder.” That was even worse, because she then overpronounced it as “WAW-turr,” with a very hard “T.” We finally gave up, figuring the number of times she actually had to say the word “water” was so few that it didn’t matter. Besides, everyone in town pronounced it “wooder” anyway. And there’s never been a fire where I live. There have been plenty of FARS though. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2025, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/78 "2025-06-03T01:15:54Z")
I’ve noticed the word _suspect_ in old crime movies. It’s pronounced differently but it’s close enough its clearly understood. I think people worry too much about these things. I say this as the DIL is trying to convince her twins, Ostrich doesn’t have a _“y”_ after the O. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2025, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/79 "2025-06-03T01:17:33Z")
> [@Topologist](#): > > Do you really pronounce “insincere” with the accent on the second syllable? What I usually hear is the primary accent on the third, with a secondary accent on the first. Now that you’ve asked me, I’m not sure. That often happens to me in threads about pronunciation. 🤔 ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2025, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111/80 "2025-06-03T01:50:30Z")
So weird to talk about how to pronounce words on a text based forum. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-decides-proper-pronunciation/1019111.md?page=5)