# Who determined the order in which letters on a keyboard placed? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 24, 2003, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-determined-the-order-in-which-letters-on-a-keyboard-placed/157067 "2003-02-24T02:39:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Neonfish07](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Neonfish07](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neonfish07)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-determined-the-order-in-which-letters-on-a-keyboard-placed/157067/1 "2003-02-24T02:39:00Z")
Who determined the order in which letters on a keyboard are placed, and why in that specific order? I tried searching in the archives but couldn’t find anything, but sorry if this has already been answered. =] ---
**Author:** ![porcupine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ac91a4/32.png) [@porcupine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/porcupine)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-determined-the-order-in-which-letters-on-a-keyboard-placed/157067/2 "2003-02-24T02:44:00Z")
Here’s a link on the invention of the [qwerty keyboard](http://www.ideafinder.com/history/inventions/story098.htm). Basically they are laid out that way to slow things down, so that mechanicla typewriters of old would not jam. Check out Dvorak keyboard layouts for fast typing - all the most frequently used keys are on the home row. ---
**Author:** ![antechinus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/fbc32d/32.png) [@antechinus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antechinus)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-determined-the-order-in-which-letters-on-a-keyboard-placed/157067/3 "2003-02-24T02:47:04Z")
I believe the original typewriter layout (remember the things that had letters on blocks flying up at a carbon impregnated strip over paper) was based on frequency of use of varoius letters in order to prevent tangling of mechanism and even out the rate of impacting. So commonly used letters (etoain - guess) are spread out with less commonly used ones. Someone will soon give the exact frequencies of letter use in english. ---
**Author:** ![antechinus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/fbc32d/32.png) [@antechinus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antechinus)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-determined-the-order-in-which-letters-on-a-keyboard-placed/157067/4 "2003-02-24T02:49:15Z")
Obvoiusly my typing was slowed down too much to pip **porcupine**. ---
**Author:** ![peepthis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9d8465/32.png) [@peepthis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peepthis)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-determined-the-order-in-which-letters-on-a-keyboard-placed/157067/5 "2003-02-24T02:49:50Z")
[Cecil speaks on the origins of the QWERTY keyboard](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_248.html). Short story: it was Christopher Sholes’ company (which produced the first practical typewriter) that came up with it. This was to reduce typewriter jamming by spreading out the most often used letters. He also discusses Dvorak keyboards in the column. ---
**Author:** ![Neonfish07](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Neonfish07](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neonfish07)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-determined-the-order-in-which-letters-on-a-keyboard-placed/157067/6 "2003-02-24T03:00:47Z")
Sorry about the typo in the thread subject line. ---
**Author:** ![Trigonal\_Planar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/0ea827/32.png) [@Trigonal\_Planar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trigonal_Planar)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-determined-the-order-in-which-letters-on-a-keyboard-placed/157067/7 "2003-02-24T04:50:32Z")
Is anyone here fluent in use of the Dvorak layout? How difficult would it be for someone efficient with QWERTY with switch to Dvorak? ---
**Author:** ![porcupine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ac91a4/32.png) [@porcupine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/porcupine)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-determined-the-order-in-which-letters-on-a-keyboard-placed/157067/8 "2003-02-24T05:01:26Z")
A friend at work switched from qwerty to Dvorak. He went cold-turkey to Dvorak as recommended and was doing pretty well with it after a few days, including a few hours of using their tutorials. I’m not sure how long it took for him to get faster with Dvorak, though. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-determined-the-order-in-which-letters-on-a-keyboard-placed/157067/9 "2003-02-24T05:13:14Z")
Good luck with getting faster with the Dvorak keyboard. IIRC the stats on speed with the Dvorak were faked. I’ll try and dig up a reference. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-determined-the-order-in-which-letters-on-a-keyboard-placed/157067/10 "2003-02-24T05:17:40Z")
Oops, no need. There’s a link to in Cecil’s column linked to above. ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-determined-the-order-in-which-letters-on-a-keyboard-placed/157067/11 "2003-02-24T06:08:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Trigonal Planar \* > Is anyone here fluent in use of the Dvorak layout? How difficult would it be for someone efficient with QWERTY with switch to Dvorak? [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=126726](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=126726) [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=114248](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=114248) [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=72157](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=72157) IMHO, it’s not worth the time to learn if you want a speed improvement, but is well well _well_ worth it if you want a comfort improvement. It confuses me why so many people equate _better_ with _faster_, and if you switch, I think you’ll see why. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-determined-the-order-in-which-letters-on-a-keyboard-placed/157067/12 "2003-02-24T07:21:34Z")
No, QWERTY is _not not not_ a slowdown. Dvorak is not going to make you any faster or better. The studies that boosted Dvorak the most were conducted by Dr. Dvorak, inventer of the layout. [THE FABLE OF THE KEYS](http://wwwpub.utdallas.edu/~liebowit/keys1.html) – by S. J. LIEBOWITZ and STEPHEN E. MARGOLIS, debunking the whining of the Dvorak camp. [Another intelligent site.](http://www.mit.edu:8001/people/jcb/Dvorak/) – Shorter than the above, with this quote: > [@](#): > > In the mid 1950s, U.S. Government’s General Services Administration commissioned a study by Earle Strong to confirm Dvorak’s results. Strong’s study, which included proper controls and which was set up to allow direct comparison of qwerty and Dvorak data, found that after sufficient training, Dvorak typists were able to match their previous qwerty speeds, but not surpass them. Furthermore, additional qwerty training for qwerty typists resulted in a greater increase in speed than additional Dvorak training for Dvorak typists who typed at a similar rate. These results would suggest that Dvorak’s claims of faster and more efficient typing are bogus, and switching layouts on the basis of speed and efficiency would not make sense. The author seems to agree with **Achernar** , but, again, the plural of anecdote is not data. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-determined-the-order-in-which-letters-on-a-keyboard-placed/157067/13 "2003-02-24T07:26:04Z")
[“Typing Errors”](http://reason.com/9606/Fe.QWERTY.shtml) – Our pals Stan Liebowitz and Stephen E. Margolis, writing for _Reason_ and debunking Dr. Dvorak’s claims of superiority. ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-determined-the-order-in-which-letters-on-a-keyboard-placed/157067/14 "2003-02-24T07:45:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Derleth \* > No, QWERTY is _not not not_ a slowdown. Hmmmm, triple negative. I guess that means QWERTY is not a slowdown. 😉