# Who developed the math operators + - / x? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 2, 2024, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-developed-the-math-operators-x/1002406 "2024-06-02T02:33:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mixdenny](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mixdenny/32/2962_2.png) [@mixdenny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mixdenny)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2024, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-developed-the-math-operators-x/1002406/1 "2024-06-02T02:33:17Z")
The Roman numbering system is older then the Arabic but did it have any operators? It appears the Roman numerals were good for years and numbers of things but cumbersome for math. When the Arabic system came along was it developed along with the operators we know today or was it just a different way of numbering things instead of Roman and the math came later? Or am I all wrong and complex math existed with the Romans or earlier. ---
**Author:** ![Retzbu\_Tox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/retzbu_tox/32/11829_2.png) [@Retzbu\_Tox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Retzbu_Tox)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2024, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-developed-the-math-operators-x/1002406/2 "2024-06-02T02:38:33Z")
Google led me to this: [https://mathshistory.st-andrews.ac.uk/Miller/mathsym/operation/](https://mathshistory.st-andrews.ac.uk/Miller/mathsym/operation/) The plus sign came first, between 1356 and 1361, and was an abbreviation for the Latin word _ **et** _, meaning _ **and** _. The other symbols evolved over the next few centuries. The Babylonians used math, but it looks like it was done in grids, tables, and diagrams. [![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a5/Clay_tablet%2C_mathematical%2C_geometric-algebraic%2C_similar_to_the_Euclidean_geometry._From_Tell_Harmal%2C_Iraq._2003-1595_BCE._Iraq_Museum.jpg) ](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a5/Clay_tablet%2C_mathematical%2C_geometric-algebraic%2C_similar_to_the_Euclidean_geometry._From_Tell_Harmal%2C_Iraq._2003-1595_BCE._Iraq_Museum.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2024, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-developed-the-math-operators-x/1002406/3 "2024-06-02T03:04:34Z")
[Wikipedia has a staggering long history on the subject](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_mathematical_notation), going back to the Babylonians. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2024, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-developed-the-math-operators-x/1002406/4 "2024-06-02T14:35:38Z")
Also an [article specifically on the plus and minus signs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plus_and_minus_signs) (though it covers much the same ground as @Retzbu_Tox’s cite). ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2024, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-developed-the-math-operators-x/1002406/5 "2024-06-03T12:42:26Z")
To be clear, is the question about the operations, or about the symbols used to represent the operations? ---
**Author:** ![mixdenny](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mixdenny/32/2962_2.png) [@mixdenny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mixdenny)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2024, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-developed-the-math-operators-x/1002406/6 "2024-06-03T16:21:01Z")
Not sure. I assumed an operation must have a symbol to allow writing it down. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2024, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-developed-the-math-operators-x/1002406/7 "2024-06-03T16:26:56Z")
Nah, you can always just write out the word. “2 and 3 is 5”, “12 minus 4 is 8”. In fact, it is very likely that’s where “+” and “-” came from, as a shortening of the words “and” and “minus” (in various languages). ---
**Author:** ![Retzbu\_Tox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/retzbu_tox/32/11829_2.png) [@Retzbu\_Tox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Retzbu_Tox)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2024, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-developed-the-math-operators-x/1002406/8 "2024-06-03T18:32:31Z")
> [@mixdenny](#): > > I assumed an operation must have a symbol to allow writing it down. The Babylonians were doing addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, algebra, and trigonometry thousands of years ago without using operator symbols. The linked article describes how they did it using base-60 numbers and lots of lookup tables. [https://mathshistory.st-andrews.ac.uk/HistTopics/Babylonian\_mathematics/](https://mathshistory.st-andrews.ac.uk/HistTopics/Babylonian_mathematics/) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2024, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-developed-the-math-operators-x/1002406/9 "2024-06-03T19:44:47Z")
I mean, I guess you can argue that the word “and” is also a symbol. But it’s certainly not the same symbol as “+”. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2024, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-developed-the-math-operators-x/1002406/10 "2024-06-03T20:03:28Z")
Sure it is not the “same”, like an integral sign is not quite merely an “S”. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2024, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-developed-the-math-operators-x/1002406/11 "2024-06-15T22:27:18Z")
I find the divide ➗ and fraction / symbols is interesting. 1st grade math teaches 2/4 can be expressed as 2 ➗ 4 When were these symbols developed? Math is a language with unique characters and operations. This guy disappeared after calculators replaced manual division. I couldn’t find an emoticon. I wonder if hand division is still taught? [![](https://image.shutterstock.com/shutterstock/photos/2206091261/display_1500/stock-vector-simple-long-division-symbol-icon-for-math-content-2206091261.jpg) ](https://image.shutterstock.com/shutterstock/photos/2206091261/display_1500/stock-vector-simple-long-division-symbol-icon-for-math-content-2206091261.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2024, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-developed-the-math-operators-x/1002406/12 "2024-06-15T22:36:45Z")
The division sign composed of a bar and two dots is discussed in the [Wikipedia article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_mathematical_notation) that Exapno\_Mapcase linked to above. It says > [Johann Rahn](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Rahn) introduced the [division sign](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_sign) (÷, an [obelus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obelus) variant repurposed) and the [therefore sign](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therefore_sign) in 1659. The “obelus” link is to another whole article about that sign. It notes that using the obelus for division > is neither universal nor recommended: the [ISO 80000-2](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_80000-2) standard for [mathematical notation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_notation) recommends only the [solidus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slash_(punctuation)) / or [fraction bar](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraction_(mathematics)#Vocabulary) for division, or the [colon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colon_(punctuation)) : for [ratios](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratio); it says that ÷ “should not be used” for division. and also notes some other meanings for the obelus in various countries. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2024, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-developed-the-math-operators-x/1002406/13 "2024-06-15T22:47:05Z")
That’s interesting. I remember my 1st and 2nd grade math books using ➗ . To teach the concept of division. Fractions came later and the teacher linked them to division. I know methods for teaching math have changed several times since I attended 1st grade. Algebra only used /. IIRC ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2024, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-developed-the-math-operators-x/1002406/14 "2024-06-15T22:47:32Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > 1st grade math teaches 2/4 can be expressed as 2 ➗ 4 "expressed as? That’s the same thing, division, except the second one is not, or at least should not, be used, as @markn_1 notes. > [@aceplace57](#): > > wonder if hand division is still taught? > [https://image.shutterstock.com/shutterstock/photos/2206091261/display\_1500/stock-vector-simple-long-division-symbol-icon-for-math-content-2206091261.jpg](https://image.shutterstock.com/shutterstock/photos/2206091261/display_1500/stock-vector-simple-long-division-symbol-icon-for-math-content-2206091261.jpg) That is a “square root”/“radical” sign, which I am not sure when it first appeared, however > The symbol was first seen in print without the vinculum (the horizontal “bar” over the numbers inside the radical symbol) in the year 1525 in _Die Coss_ by Christoff Rudolff a German mathematician. In 1637 Descartes was the first to unite the German radical sign √ with the vinculum to create the radical symbol in common use today. Taking decimal square roots by hand, well, maybe that is only still taught to very bored students? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2024, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-developed-the-math-operators-x/1002406/15 "2024-06-15T22:53:03Z")
Thank you. I can’t remember the formal name for the bracket we drew for long division. Try showing this to a 8 year old kid. 😉 [![](https://www.longdivision-calculator.com/images/long-divison-example-step-3.png) ](https://www.longdivision-calculator.com/images/long-divison-example-step-3.png) ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2024, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-developed-the-math-operators-x/1002406/16 "2024-06-15T23:02:15Z")
Using an obelus as a division sign is rarely done past early elementary school. I don’t know why schools teach young kids this weird symbol that isn’t really used anywhere else. The same is true for using × as a multiplication sign, although it’s used a bit more than the obelus, such as in scientific notation (like 6.02 × 1023), and in things that are similar but not the same as arithmetic multiplication, like vector cross products. The Wikipedia article for [long division](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_division) says the sign composed of a right parenthesis combined with a vinculum (horizontal bar) is known simply as a “long division symbol” or “division bracket”. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2024, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-developed-the-math-operators-x/1002406/17 "2024-06-15T23:08:52Z")
The only time I ever see an obelus division sign any more is as a label on a calculator key. Oddly enough, when you press that key, the symbol that appears on the screen is still a fraction slash. I know long division is still taught, because whenever I show my Algebra 2 and Precalc students polynomial division (which uses basically the same algorithm, because place-value numbers are themselves polynomials), at least a few of them still remember it. Of course, they’re all horribly out of practice at it. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2024, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-developed-the-math-operators-x/1002406/18 "2024-06-15T23:22:27Z")
> [@markn\_1](#): > > Using an obelus as a division sign is rarely done past early elementary school. I don’t know why schools teach young kids this weird symbol that isn’t really used anywhere else. As @Chronos notes, it’s still fairly common on calculator buttons. It has the advantage of being an in-line symbol that unambiguously signifies division, as opposed to the slash, which is also used in dates (e.g. 6/13/2024) and/or other contexts. In fact… _(Note: The following is my understanding, but it’s not something I’ve verified. I would welcome correction)_ …the use of the slash as a division symbol, like the use of an asterisk as a multiplication symbol, started when people started typing math on computers. Since the \* and / were already on the keyboard for their original uses, they were repurposed as operators, which saved having to add a new key to the keyboard and/or a new symbol to the ASCII character set. Before this, the obelus wasn’t “this weird symbol”; it was _the_ way people wrote division as a binary operator. ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2024, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-developed-the-math-operators-x/1002406/19 "2024-06-15T23:27:57Z")
[Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slash_(punctuation)#Mathematics) says the slash to represent division “developed from the [fraction slash](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slash_(punctuation)#Fractions) in the late 18th or early 19th century.” So I don’t think computer keyboards had anything to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2024, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-developed-the-math-operators-x/1002406/20 "2024-06-15T23:46:30Z")
I see we’re talking about the difference in arithmetic and mathematics. Same concepts but they use a few different symbols. Presumably to make it easier for young children to learn the meaning of numbers and how to use them. [Arithmetic - Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arithmetic) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-developed-the-math-operators-x/1002406.md?page=2)