# Who did you initially assume was responsible for the 9/11 attacks? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 11, 2006, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-did-you-initially-assume-was-responsible-for-the-9-11-attacks/372264 "2006-09-11T08:33:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2006, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-did-you-initially-assume-was-responsible-for-the-9-11-attacks/372264/61 "2006-09-12T11:16:35Z")
[QUOTE=Leaffan] … I will have no part in the theory that the US government conspired in, and sanctioned the attacks on the World Trade Center. Anyone who thinks this is true is a complete fucking moron. … [/QUOTE] Which part? ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2006, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-did-you-initially-assume-was-responsible-for-the-9-11-attacks/372264/62 "2006-09-12T13:05:45Z")
[QUOTE=erie774] IIn the SDMB thread of that day someone posted almost immediately that they thought of bin Laden. Anyone have the link to that thread? [/QUOTE] [World Trade Center Plane Crash](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=86458) ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2006, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-did-you-initially-assume-was-responsible-for-the-9-11-attacks/372264/63 "2006-09-12T15:33:00Z")
[QUOTE=Leaffan] Well, you’re a fucking idiot then. Sorry. But someone had to say it. They were warned? Well one, where’s the cite, and two, if they were warned I doubt it stated verbatim what was to happen on which date. [/quote] :rolleyes: Haven’t you been paying attention ? They were repeatedly told that Bin Laden was going to attack, and repeatedly brushed it off; one such incident mentioned [here](http://baltimorechronicle.com/2006/081106PARRY.shtml). [QUOTE=Baltimore Chronicle] The CIA tried to warn Bush about the threat with the hope that presidential action could energize government agencies and head off the attack. On Aug. 6, 2001, the CIA sent analysts to Bush’s ranch in Crawford, Texas, to brief him and deliver a report entitled “Bin Laden Determined to Strike in US.” Bush was not pleased by the intrusion. He glared at the CIA briefer and snapped, “All right, you’ve covered your ass,” according to Suskind’s book. Then, ordering no special response, Bush returned to a vacation of fishing, clearing brush and working on a speech about stem-cell research. [/QUOTE] BTW, the same link also points out the CIA’s assessment that Bin Laden supported Bush over Kerry; there’s a reason for that. [QUOTE=Baltimore Chronicle] On Oct. 29, 2004, the Friday before Election 2004, bin Laden broke nearly a year of silence and took the risk of releasing a videotape that denounced Bush and was immediately spun by Bush’s supporters as bin Laden’s “endorsement” of Democratic Sen. John Kerry. According to two polls taken during and after the videotape’s release, Bush experienced a bump of several percentage points, from a virtual tie with Kerry to a five or six percentage point lead. Tracking polls by TIPP and Newsweek detected a surge in Bush support from a statistically insignificant two-point lead to five and six points, respectively. On Nov. 2, 2004, the official results showed Bush winning by a margin of less than three percentage points. So, arguably the intervention by bin Laden – essentially urging Americans to reject Bush – had the predictable effect of driving voters to the President, possibly in sufficient numbers to tip the balance of the election. CIA Assessment After the videotape appeared, senior CIA analysts concluded that ensuring a second term for Bush was precisely what bin Laden intended. “Bin Laden certainly did a nice favor today for the President,” said deputy CIA director John McLaughlin in opening a meeting to review secret “strategic analysis” after the videotape had dominated the day’s news, according to Ron Suskind’s The One Percent Doctrine, which draws heavily from CIA insiders. Suskind wrote that CIA analysts had spent years “parsing each expressed word of the al-Qaeda leader and his deputy, [Ayman] Zawahiri. What they’d learned over nearly a decade is that bin Laden speaks only for strategic reasons. … Today’s conclusion: bin Laden’s message was clearly designed to assist the President’s reelection.” Jami Miscik, CIA deputy associate director for intelligence, expressed the consensus view that bin Laden recognized how Bush’s heavy-handed policies – such as the Guantanamo prison camp, the Abu Ghraib scandal and the war in Iraq – were serving al-Qaeda’s strategic goals for recruiting a new generation of jihadists. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Leaffan] I will have no part in the theory that the US government conspired in, and sanctioned the attacks on the World Trade Center. Anyone who thinks this is true is a complete fucking moron. [/quote] Why ? The people running the country at present have shown zero concern for the lives of Americans, or America’s welfare. If it got them something they wanted, why _wouldn’t_ they ? Claiming that ruthless selfish people behave ruthlessly and selfishly is hardly moronic. From the beginning they were told that America would be attacked, beginning by the outgoing Clinton Admin. _At best_, Bush and friends have been criminally incompetent. Given that they _wanted_ something like 9-11 to happen, in order to create an opening for the neocon agenda and the invasion of Iraq, the idea that they let it happen is hardly implausible. When Bob’s ( known to be ruthless and amoral ) rich uncle turns up poisoned, and it turns out that the uncle recently changed his will so that Bob inherited everything, it’s not stupid to suspect Bob may have been behind the poisoning. 9-11 gave Bush and the neocns what they wanted; suspecting they let it happen isn’t stupid at all, no matter how much you claim that stuff like that can’t happen here because America is so _special_. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2006, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-did-you-initially-assume-was-responsible-for-the-9-11-attacks/372264/64 "2006-09-12T16:16:06Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] _At best_, Bush and friends have been criminally incompetent. Given that they _wanted_ something like 9-11 to happen, … [/QUOTE] Yes. You’re correct. Obviously Bush wanted a major attack on the US. There could have been 50,000 people killed on September 11, 2001. Fortunately the number was only some 3,000. I’m sure your government thinks nothing of taking 3,000 fathers, mothers, husbands, sons, daughters, aunts, uncles, and slaughtering them to forward their own political agenda. Not to mention that the Pentagon could have potentially been completely destroyed. Not to mention that the White House would have been wiped out if it weren’t for the brave passengers on flight 93. Not to mention that the stock market plummeted, the airline industry is still almost bankrupt, and the travel industry has still not fully recovered. As long as the Republican party gets re-elected, I’m sure that’s all Bush wanted alright. BTW, have you heard? The moon landings were faked. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2006, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-did-you-initially-assume-was-responsible-for-the-9-11-attacks/372264/65 "2006-09-12T16:28:09Z")
\*\*Fern Forest \*\* was the first to say it was Bin Laden. I couldn’t read any further in that thread without tearing up. It still blows my mind. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2006, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-did-you-initially-assume-was-responsible-for-the-9-11-attacks/372264/66 "2006-09-12T17:00:24Z")
[QUOTE=Leaffan] Yes. You’re correct. Obviously Bush wanted a major attack on the US. There could have been 50,000 people killed on September 11, 2001. Fortunately the number was only some 3,000. I’m sure your government thinks nothing of taking 3,000 fathers, mothers, husbands, sons, daughters, aunts, uncles, and slaughtering them to forward their own political agenda. [/quote] \< Points to Iraq \> No, they think nothing at all of it. Human life means nothing to these people. I’m sure they would have considered the nuking of New York a trivial price. [QUOTE=Leaffan] Not to mention that the Pentagon could have potentially been completely destroyed. Not to mention that the White House would have been wiped out if it weren’t for the brave passengers on flight 93. [/quote] Oh, I expect the White House had it’s anti-air defenses ready for some time. As for the Pentagon, I’ve never seen this Administration show any concern for the fate of military personnel, or the military itself. [QUOTE=Leaffan] As long as the Republican party gets re-elected, I’m sure that’s all Bush wanted alright. [/quote] They wanted to invade Iraq and the rest of the neocon agenda as well, of course. [QUOTE=Leaffan] BTW, have you heard? The moon landings were faked. [/QUOTE] :rolleyes: Not the same thing at all, and you know it. There’s no point in doing so, and we never had the technology to do so in the first place. Fooling the Soviets and everyone else that way would have been harder than actual landing. We lack both the motive and the means to fake the moon landings; Bush and friends had both for 9-11. All they had to do was let it happen; not that hard. By the way, calling something a “conspiracy theory” doesn’t make it false; it’s just a way of trying to silence people without actually arguing with them. It’s very popular with apologists these days. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2006, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-did-you-initially-assume-was-responsible-for-the-9-11-attacks/372264/67 "2006-09-12T17:14:29Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] \< Points to Iraq \> No, they think nothing at all of it. Human life means nothing to these people. I’m sure they would have considered the nuking of New York a trivial price. [/QUOTE] Well **Der Trihs** I can see we’re diametrically opposed on this one. You’ve been rather cordial to me considering my initial comments, and I respect that. I don’t think there much more we can throw back and forth at this point. Cheers. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2006, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-did-you-initially-assume-was-responsible-for-the-9-11-attacks/372264/68 "2006-09-12T17:31:40Z")
Given that [I wasn’t allowed to listen to a radio or TV](http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-jeQabIs8bqoEpXpPksi4LZLimzw-?cq=1) on September 11th until 3pm, my guess didn’t get more specific than “middle-eastern terrorists” before we knew who was responsible. Hell, my journal entry for September 12th, 2001 was about how I didn’t think bombing Afghanistan was much of a solution, so we obviously knew who was at fault just about right away. ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2006, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-did-you-initially-assume-was-responsible-for-the-9-11-attacks/372264/69 "2006-09-12T17:38:41Z")
Bin Laden. I didn’t hear about anything until after both towers and the Pentagon had been hit, and I had read some time previous about how dangerous he was. I hadn’t heard of Hezbollah, which in retrospect was unfortunate because before 9/11 they had killed more Americans (abroad) and were more active in the United States. They definitely had the will and the resources to do it, and shouldn’t have been dismissed so easily. I never considered domestic terrorism. American terrorists seem much less prone to kamikaze tactics. ---
**Author:** ![Slypork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@Slypork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slypork)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2006, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-did-you-initially-assume-was-responsible-for-the-9-11-attacks/372264/70 "2006-09-12T17:43:08Z")
Good grief! Between [\*\* Diogenes\*\*](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=387728) and \*\*Der Trihs \*\* I don’t know which one hates America more! You really think that the government would sacrifice thousands of lives just to justify going to war?? Are you really that deluded?? I could almost (and I mean almost) accept some crap about it being done for profit but that is the largest pile of elephant dung I have ever seen! And don’t give me the old “Haliburton/oil cronies” garbage either. This sounds like a bad Robert Ludlum novel. Wait! It was the Tri-Lateral Commission! No! It was the Illuminati and Freemasons! No! It was the Skull and Bones! You know that the Bush family is a member of all three! They combined their resources, bribed bin Laden to meet with the hijackers and then made all air traffic controllers take potty breaks at the same time! And they secretly provided life insurance policies for all families of the victims on the airplanes so they wouldn’t push for an investigation! And the Pentagon was hit by a missile fired from a launcher disguised as an ice cream truck! And Elvis is running the War on Terror from his hidden bunker 500 feet beneath Graceland! :rolleyes: Give me a freaking break! ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2006, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-did-you-initially-assume-was-responsible-for-the-9-11-attacks/372264/71 "2006-09-12T18:15:10Z")
[QUOTE=erie774] You really think that the government would sacrifice thousands of lives just to justify going to war?? Are you really that deluded?? I could almost (and I mean almost) accept some crap about it being done for profit but that is the largest pile of elephant dung I have ever seen! And don’t give me the old “Haliburton/oil cronies” garbage either. This sounds like a bad Robert Ludlum novel. [/quote] Or, the sort of thing the US military [would come up with](http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662&page=1) > [@](#): > > In the early 1960s, America’s top military leaders reportedly drafted plans to kill innocent people and commit acts of terrorism in U.S. cities to create public support for a war against Cuba. > > Code named Operation Northwoods, the plans reportedly included the possible assassination of Cuban émigrés, sinking boats of Cuban refugees on the high seas, hijacking planes, blowing up a U.S. ship, and even orchestrating violent terrorism in U.S. cities. > > The plans were developed as ways to trick the American public and the international community into supporting a war to oust Cuba’s then new leader, communist Fidel Castro. > America’s top military brass even contemplated causing U.S. military casualties, writing: “We could blow up a U.S. ship in Guantanamo Bay and blame Cuba,” and, “casualty lists in U.S. newspapers would cause a helpful wave of national indignation.” Kennedy rejected that plan; there was no one to tell Bush “No”. Let me pointing out again that the government has undeniably sacrificed thousands of American live in Iraq ( ignoring then tens of thousands of Iraqis, who don’t count by American standards ), and appears prepared to sacrifice thousands more. There simply is _no evidence_ that these maniacs care about American lives. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2006, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-did-you-initially-assume-was-responsible-for-the-9-11-attacks/372264/72 "2006-09-12T18:22:58Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] Or, the sort of thing the US military [would come up with](http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662&page=1) Kennedy rejected that plan; there was no one to tell Bush “No”. Let me pointing out again that the government has undeniably sacrificed thousands of American live in Iraq ( ignoring then tens of thousands of Iraqis, who don’t count by American standards ), and appears prepared to sacrifice thousands more. There simply is _no evidence_ that these maniacs care about American lives. [/QUOTE] Is there a particular reason why you live in the United States? You seem so unhappy. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2006, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-did-you-initially-assume-was-responsible-for-the-9-11-attacks/372264/73 "2006-09-12T18:25:43Z")
[QUOTE=Magiver] Is there a particular reason why you live in the United States? You seem so unhappy. [/QUOTE] I strongly disagree with his theory, but perhaps he believes it is easier to change the country from within. Jim ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2006, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-did-you-initially-assume-was-responsible-for-the-9-11-attacks/372264/74 "2006-09-12T18:33:25Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?] I strongly disagree with his theory, but perhaps he believes it is easier to change the country from within. Jim [/QUOTE] Yes, possibly. But if everything appears to be a conspiracy what’s the point. There is an unlimited number of windmills to choose from. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2006, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-did-you-initially-assume-was-responsible-for-the-9-11-attacks/372264/75 "2006-09-12T18:37:05Z")
[QUOTE=Magiver] Is there a particular reason why you live in the United States? You seem so unhappy. [/QUOTE] Because I don’t feel like taking the effort to leave. Yet. ---
**Author:** ![fessie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@fessie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fessie)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2006, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-did-you-initially-assume-was-responsible-for-the-9-11-attacks/372264/76 "2006-09-12T18:38:55Z")
Gotta say, my husband’s been making the same argument as **Der Trihs** for years now. And the way the Administration has used the attacks to keep Americans afraid seems to corroborate the argument. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2006, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-did-you-initially-assume-was-responsible-for-the-9-11-attacks/372264/77 "2006-09-12T18:41:22Z")
[QUOTE=fessie] Gotta say, my husband’s been making the same argument as **Der Trihs** for years now. And the way the Administration has used the attacks to keep Americans afraid seems to corroborate the argument. [/QUOTE] I hope he has some actual redeeming qualities. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2006, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-did-you-initially-assume-was-responsible-for-the-9-11-attacks/372264/78 "2006-09-12T18:54:05Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] Because I don’t feel like taking the effort to leave. Yet. [/QUOTE] Vancouver is a beatiful city and you get tax funded health-care. You also have the same ocean view without the fear of earthqakes or Republicans. Everything you want is just a day’s drive north. ---
**Author:** ![Slypork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@Slypork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slypork)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2006, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-did-you-initially-assume-was-responsible-for-the-9-11-attacks/372264/79 "2006-09-12T19:09:55Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] Because I don’t feel like taking the effort to leave. Yet. [/QUOTE] Here’s your hat, what’s your hurry. 😛 Obviously, you think that the US is the ultimate evil (or is it the Great Satan? 😃 ) in the world. Nothing good ever comes from here, the leaders are out to screw everyone, kill whomever they please and make a huge profit in the bargain. Dr. Evil would be right at home in the White House. If you don’t like it, change the system. Either run for office and change it from within, become an investigative journalist who exposes the flaws and wakes the public to the problems or become a revolutionary/insurgent/terrorist yourself and eliminate the leaders (preferably doing it in a suicide attack). Otherwise, you are not wanted here. I will never say, “My country, right or wrong.” America is a mess. Democracy is an experiment that is constantly being fine tuned. We’ve made mistakes and will continue to do so. But we have also grown from an agrarian bunch of settlements into the world’s most powerful country with unbelievable wealth, industry, technology and resources in only a few hundred years. We give money and comfort to countries ravaged by disasters, both natural and man-made, including to our “enemies” (Iran, North Korea, Iraq and the Soviet Union just to name a few). We are the sole remaining superpower (China is in ascendancy still) and we have been asked to step in as the world police in Somalia, Bosnia and Haiti and then derided because we don’t go into other countries in trouble. The UN issued resolutions and sanctions against Saddam and Iraq because he never revealed his WMD program and kept playing a shell game for years but they didn’t do anything. We finally said shit or get off the pot. And we get lambasted for it. Winston Churchill said, “It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried.” I love my country because there is nowhere else in the world with the opportunities we have. The world copies us because of our successes, accepts many aspects of our society and then gets pissed because they are becoming more Americanized. If you don’t like what America is and what it represents, go to Canada like Alec Baldwin did after the election. Oh, wait a minute… 😉 > [@](#): > > **Woulda-Coulda-Shoulda** > All the Woulda-Coulda-Shouldas > Layin’ in the sun, > Talkin’ bout the things > They woulda-coulda-shoulda done… > But those Woulda-Coulda-Shouldas > All ran away and hid > From one little did. > -Shel Silverstein ---
**Author:** ![Slypork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@Slypork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slypork)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2006, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-did-you-initially-assume-was-responsible-for-the-9-11-attacks/372264/80 "2006-09-12T19:14:33Z")
Sorry about the hijack, folks (poor choice of words in the context of this thread :eek: ). I realize my diatribe is better suited to the Pit. I’ll now sit back and let **Der Trihs** illuminate us with his patriotism. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-did-you-initially-assume-was-responsible-for-the-9-11-attacks/372264.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-did-you-initially-assume-was-responsible-for-the-9-11-attacks/372264.md?page=5)