# Who DIDN'T like the Beatles in 1964 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 12, 2014, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-didnt-like-the-beatles-in-1964/681120 "2014-02-12T04:16:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-didnt-like-the-beatles-in-1964/681120/41 "2014-02-12T20:56:07Z")
> [@johnpost](#): > > this thread asked about the Fab Four in reference to the 50th anniversary of the famous Ed Sullivan. my comments were to that from a USA perspective. > > … > > maybe to address their musical talent of the time. > > they were a boy band. they skewed older then than boy bands now, but they still were. you don’t need as much talent when you have image. > > there was a cartoon show, The Beatles. i know it was just their music involved but the target audience was people less sophisticated about music. you don’t need as much talent when you have image. > > earlier i did a quick list that i will show below > > …song list removed… > > who rocked in the above list? what bands had long intricate songs? not the Fab Four. > > good marketing of a pop band. cult following that believed them sacred and totally original underived and life changing; their followers were a good example of cognitive dissonance of a brainwashed cult. > [@DChord568](#): > > So your standard for what’s good in rock is “long, intricate songs”? Can you explain a little further how that standard works? my meaning was what either rocked (some short ones there) or were long, intricate songs. > [@DChord568](#): > > FWIW, I like virtually every song on this list (note that several of them are albums, not songs, though). I also like most Beatles songs from each of these years, too. in this thread i was adding that comment (that there were albums) to the list because the album was to be listened to as a side and was done so in the home or on progressive rock stations on the FM band. i deleted the thought before posting. the list is a comparison of style and taste of the groups. > [@DChord568](#): > > I notice how you cherry-picked your Beatles examples, too…choosing “Paperback Writer” instead of “Tomorrow Never Knows” for 1966, “All You Need Is Love” instead of “Strawberry Fields Forever” for 1967, and “Lady Madonna” instead of “Revolution” for 1968. Nice try. i went to lists of music for those years and picked what were big for the groups by year. they were a top 40 pop group and their hits show it. > [@DChord568](#): > > The fact that you would cite The Beatles cartoon show, which the band had nothing to do with, as if it proves something makes me lean this way already. i stated that their music was the only input from them when i cited that. the fact that their music could be successfully marketed to an unsophisticated musical audience does relate to the musical quality. ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-didnt-like-the-beatles-in-1964/681120/42 "2014-02-12T21:08:02Z")
> [@installLSC](#): > > With the 50th anniversary of the famous Ed Sullivan appearance, there’s a lot of mention how the youth of America flocked to the Beatles in 1964. But there had to be people of teen/college age who didn’t like the Beatles at all. Know anyone like that, or maybe even yourself? And did they ever come around? I haven’t read the responses yet, but I can put myself in the category of “didn’t like” purely because I hadn’t heard them in 1964 with the same ears I did some time later. My tastes were already pretty much “jazz only” by then, and even though some of my earlier favorites in the RnR genre included Elvis, Buddy Holly and Ray Charles, I was not a fan of rock groups as such. It took hits of theirs to convince me they were special and I have dozens of their songs on my All-Time Favorites list. The main point I want to make is that I didn’t NOT like them, either. Just apathetic to them in their early days. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-didnt-like-the-beatles-in-1964/681120/43 "2014-02-12T21:11:12Z")
> [@](#): > > the fact that their music could be successfully marketed to an unsophisticated musical audience does relate to the musical quality. Really, there’s not enough electrons in the metaverse to support the number of :rolleyes: smilies this statement deserves. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-didnt-like-the-beatles-in-1964/681120/44 "2014-02-12T21:18:34Z")
> [@johnpost](#): > > i went to lists of music for those years and picked what were big for the groups by year. they were a top 40 pop group and their hits show it. The were the single most influential group in rock history, who also had pop success, artistic success, and financial success. The two statements are not exclusive. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-didnt-like-the-beatles-in-1964/681120/45 "2014-02-12T21:18:36Z")
> [@johnpost](#): > > (snip) the fact that their music could be successfully marketed to an unsophisticated musical audience does relate to the musical quality. You say 'quality, I say ‘elitism and pretentiousness’. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![DChord568](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@DChord568](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DChord568)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-didnt-like-the-beatles-in-1964/681120/46 "2014-02-12T21:22:01Z")
> [@johnpost](#): > > my meaning was what either rocked (some short ones there) or were long, intricate songs. It’s obvious you didn’t live through this time frame, and obvious, too, that you think The Beatles “don’t rock,” which is a foolish statement if ever there was one. And apparently, you think that “long, intricate songs” are somehow superior to short rock and pop songs by default. This is similarly nonsensical. > [@](#): > > in this thread i was adding that comment (that there were albums) to the list because the album was to be listened to as a side and was done so in the home or on progressive rock stations on the FM band. i deleted the thought before posting. the list is a comparison of style and taste of the groups. > > i went to lists of music for those years and picked what were big for the groups by year. they were a top 40 pop group and their hits show it. This statement makes it even more obvious that you didn’t live through this era. If you truly believe that The Beatles were seen solely as a Top 40 pop group, you need to start reading more and better books than you’ve been reading. And again, you cherry-picked. The “Penny Lane”/“Strawberry Fields Forever” single charted #1/#8. The “All You Need Is Love”/“Baby You’re a Rich Man” single charted at #1/#34. Are you arguing that “All You Need Is Love” was “big,” but the earlier single wasn’t? > [@](#): > > i stated that their music was the only input from them when i cited that. the fact that their music could be successfully marketed to an unsophisticated musical audience does relate to the musical quality. Beatles music was liked equally by listeners with “unsophisticated” (whatever that means) and “sophisticated” musical tastes…something you would know if you had lived through the era. Fact of the matter is, The Beatles were loved by the overwhelming majority of those who listened to rock music during their lifetime as a recording group. How do you figure that being loved by so-called “unsophisticated” listeners somehow negates the approbation of “sophisticated” ones? By the way…you’ve never actually HEARD The Stones’ version of “Come On”…have you? I notice you didn’t quote the portion of my post in which I compared it to “She Loves You.” (Nor did you quote my statement about every single artist on your list giving credit to The Beatles, who in one way or another made them all possible.) Next time, try knowing a little more of what you’re talking about, and having that knowledge come from experience and listening rather than “lists.” ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-didnt-like-the-beatles-in-1964/681120/47 "2014-02-12T21:27:02Z")
> [@DChord568](#): > > I disagree that most Stones covers were “just as great” as the originals. In particular, the Stones’ cover of the Temptations’ “Ain’t Too Proud To Beg” should be taken out and shot. Everytime I hear it, as I punch the button to change the station, I wonder why the hell anyone would play the Stones’ version instead of the original. The fact that the Stones’ version is the only version “classic rock” stations play discredits the genre all by itself. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-didnt-like-the-beatles-in-1964/681120/48 "2014-02-12T21:30:49Z")
As of 50 years ago today, I was an 8 1/2 month old fetus, so it wasn’t something of interest to me at that time, and my parents don’t really remember it either, for obvious reasons. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-didnt-like-the-beatles-in-1964/681120/49 "2014-02-12T21:34:40Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > The Beatles changed music in America in 1964. They changed music in America in 1965. They changed music in America in 1966. They changed music in America in 1967. By 1968 they were essentially dead as a group, drained by the adulation, and frustrated by not being able to play music in public, the thing they loved much more than making studio records. > > By 1964, they had already changed music in Britain. They were legendary before the Stones and the Kinks and Who had become the bands we know today. None of them looked down on the Beatles. If they didn’t, then you don’t get to. > > Hindsight is useful, but it fails here. The Beatles in 1964 were miles ahead of anybody else. The original British Hard Day’s Night [track listing](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Hard_Day%27s_Night_%28album%29#Track_listing) is dynamite. Great rockers, sophisticated ballads, up-tempo dance songs. Every song holds up - something not in the least true of other contemporary albums - and every single one was written by the group. > > They could have coasted on this success. They didn’t. They approached every new album as a chance to try something they hadn’t been capable of before and that nobody else, with the possible exception of Dylan, had even considered trying. They raised the age of their audience year by year and shoved rock out of teen music status, making it possible for all the later college-oriented bands to have a career and fame. By 1967, they had conquered even the haters. Sgt. Pepper’s solidified rock’s permanent place in music. You don’t have to consider it their best album - I don’t - but it’s the most important album of all time. If they had stopped making music then, they’d still be what they are today, and possibly ranked higher. > > The Beatles won over the sophisticated people who had never considered rock anything better than music for imbeciles. You can’t go back and say that history never happened. They did it almost overnight and through the sheer excellence of their music. Looking at that history year-by-year is amazing. The only thing close in cultural history is the arrival of movies and that was a longer process involving scores of talents. The Beatles did it against the opposition of the entire music establishment and the critical world. Image doesn’t do that. Your history is wrong. To this, I’ll add that while most of the groundbreaking artists and groups were making a hell of a lot of music in the 1964-68 period, way more than anyone expects out of a band nowadays, the Beatles’ output in the period is insanely huge, even by the standards of their contemporaries. And, as you say, each album broke new ground; they never coasted. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-didnt-like-the-beatles-in-1964/681120/50 "2014-02-12T21:43:01Z")
**Who didn’t like the Beatles?** [David A Noebel, that’s who](http://conelrad.com/books/spine.php?id=354_0_1_0_C) ---
**Author:** ![DChord568](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@DChord568](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DChord568)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-didnt-like-the-beatles-in-1964/681120/51 "2014-02-12T21:58:50Z")
> [@johnpost](#): > > 1967 > Are You Experienced - The Jimi Hendrix Experience > Axis: Bold as Love - The Jimi Hendrix Experience > The Grateful Dead - Grateful Dead > A Whiter Shade of Pale - Procol Harum > All You Need Is Love - The Beatles > Monterey - Eric Burdon & The Animals, > Nights in White Satin - The Moody Blues > > 1968 > Electric Ladyland - The Jimi Hendrix Experience > A Saucerful of Secrets - Pink Floyd > Music from Big Pink - The Band > Anthem of the Sun - Grateful Dead > Lady Madonna - The Beatles Meant to add this to the earlier post but missed the cut-off. So you pit one Beatles single from 1967 (and not their best one by a long shot) against three albums, and yet somehow neglect to mention _Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band_ from that year? You pit one Beatles single from 1968 (and not the “biggest” one by any measure, which was “Hey Jude”) against an all-album roster of competition, and again conveniently overlook _The Beatles (The White Album)_? My advice: stop posting in this thread before you make yourself look any more foolish than you already have. ---
**Author:** ![TV\_time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f17d59/32.png) [@TV\_time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TV_time)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-didnt-like-the-beatles-in-1964/681120/52 "2014-02-12T22:20:17Z")
I was a sophomore in high school in the fall of ‘64, and had just moved from a good sized city to a small town (3,000 people). I was an outsider. The Beatles were outsiders (well, sort of - at least in my mind) especially in a place where the only music seemed to be country music. So I liked them for that. Did I embrace them immediately? No not really. It was not until their film (Hard Days Night) came out that I became a FAN! It was like nothing I had ever seen, heard or felt. And since then…so many of the milestones of my life were done to Beatles’ music. Late in that sophomore year, I got my first job - a DJ on the town’s only radio station. Two hours twice a week, I had a rock 'n roll program. The station played MOR (middle of the road) and country sets all the other times. But on Tuesday and Thursday evenings you could hear rock ‘n roll with “TV on the Radio.” The only rule the station manager gave me, "None of that stinkin’ Beatle music!" which also included stuff from the Stones, Animals or similar groups. The positive side was that I got to take home all of the records sent to the station that I wasn’t allowed to play. It was great for dances I worked. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-didnt-like-the-beatles-in-1964/681120/53 "2014-02-12T23:05:48Z")
> [@DChord568](#): > > And apparently, you think that “long, intricate songs” are somehow superior to short rock and pop songs by default. This is similarly nonsensical. i never said that. there are a number of short songs in the list done by others than the Fab Four. they are different and have their own qualities. Nights in White Satin is an intricate song. You Really Got Me is a simple short song lyrically and musically but it does rock. > [@DChord568](#): > > How do you figure that being loved by so-called “unsophisticated” listeners somehow negates the approbation of “sophisticated” ones? the fact that a cartoon show was successfully marketed to preteens and early teens showed that their music was pop fluff. > [@DChord568](#): > > Next time, try knowing a little more of what you’re talking about, and having that knowledge come from experience and listening rather than “lists.” it’s true i shouldn’t just copy the list of songs without having listened to them first. i got the list, created by others, of popular songs in a year. it didn’t list every song in that year by any group. i did not go to databases of airplay or revenue. i did not develop any entries of my own. i picked songs that illustrated the point that while other people rocked or had sophisticated music the Fab Four had Top 40 fluff. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-didnt-like-the-beatles-in-1964/681120/54 "2014-02-12T23:07:27Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > I think Bryan said -5 😃 Yes. It was a quite a debilitating medical issue. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-didnt-like-the-beatles-in-1964/681120/55 "2014-02-12T23:34:02Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > **Who didn’t like the Beatles?** > > [David A Noebel, that’s who](http://conelrad.com/books/spine.php?id=354_0_1_0_C) You can say that again. [Noebel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_A._Noebel) made a career out of phamphletting the Beatles out of existence. Guess how well that worked? [THE BEATLES: A Study in Drugs, Sex and Revolution](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0007H0X7Q/ref=cm_cr_ryp_prd_ttl_sol_0), a Christian Crusade Publication. Fun shit, you bet. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-didnt-like-the-beatles-in-1964/681120/56 "2014-02-12T23:42:21Z")
> [@johnpost](#): > > i got the list, created by others, of popular songs in a year. it didn’t list every song in that year by any group. i did not go to databases of airplay or revenue. i did not develop any entries of my own. i picked songs that illustrated the point that while other people rocked or had sophisticated music the Fab Four had Top 40 fluff. By omitting the Beatles’ own more sophisticated efforts, and cherrypicking only one of their weaker singles, year by year? Among the crowd around this board, that’s going to be taken as a confession that you had no idea of how to really support your point so you just grabbed whatever was lying around that looked like it agreed with you. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-didnt-like-the-beatles-in-1964/681120/57 "2014-02-12T23:51:13Z")
> [@johnpost](#): > > i got the list, created by others, of popular songs in a year. it didn’t list every song in that year by any group. i did not go to databases of airplay or revenue. i did not develop any entries of my own. i picked songs that illustrated the point that while other people rocked or had sophisticated music the Fab Four had Top 40 fluff. When I honestly, truly, have no idea what I’m talking about you know what I do? Nothing. I don’t post on that subject. I just don’t get why others don’t do this. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2014, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-didnt-like-the-beatles-in-1964/681120/58 "2014-02-13T00:23:24Z")
the list was of popular songs or albums in each year, written by others, of which i picked some. i added none. it wasn’t done as a large research project, it was some data to make a point in an earlier thread. i don’t think any of the data is in error. it doesn’t matter if the list i got data from did not include all the works from each group. if the Fab Four released it then it is their taste and talent they were showing. it shows the Fab Four were releasing Top 40 pop fluff while other groups released hard rock/blues or had developed and produced sophisticated album music. ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2014, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-didnt-like-the-beatles-in-1964/681120/59 "2014-02-13T00:38:55Z")
I have to pop in and add a certain song to the 1965 list: _My Generation_. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2014, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-didnt-like-the-beatles-in-1964/681120/60 "2014-02-13T01:59:42Z")
> [@johnpost](#): > > it shows the Fab Four were releasing Top 40 pop fluff while other groups released hard rock/blues or had developed and produced sophisticated album music. It shows that you don’t know the genre or the music catalog. (Or how to use your shift key, it’s a bit annoying, BTW.) You have the ignored the sophisticated, complex, and groundbreaking Beatles albums released in the same years as they also released more straightforward pop tunes. But they released a lot of music, appealing to a variety of audiences. If you can’t acknowledge that and explain how your position can survive that then your argument is bankrupt. And you won’t be able to because your argument is bankrupt. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-didnt-like-the-beatles-in-1964/681120.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-didnt-like-the-beatles-in-1964/681120.md?page=4)