# Who do you most want to lose? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 25, 2018, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-do-you-most-want-to-lose/823483 "2018-10-25T04:32:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2018, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-do-you-most-want-to-lose/823483/101 "2018-11-01T03:47:11Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t know. I wasn’t there when it was distributed, I don’t share his particular flavor of faith, and I don’t know precisely where his bullet points are coming from. That’s why I asked “Do you know anything about the context?” rather than leaping to the conclusion that he had laid out his secret plan to commit genocide and establish a theocracy and some courageous reporter had uncovered the plot and saved us all. > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > See post #88 (and do me a favor and don’t read anything extra into that post #) OK, I won’t. I wasn’t there, either. But I do know how to use Google, and here are a few things I came up with [from a Spokane newspaper](http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2018/oct/26/rep-matt-shea-takes-credit-criticism-for-document-/). I dug it up for a Pit discussion but since I understand you don’t go there, this is a quick rehash: - Matt Shea considers it a matter of faith that that “the United States is ‘a Christian nation’ and his detractors are part of a ‘counter state’ made up of ‘Marxists’ and ‘Islamists’.” - Shea embraces far-right conspiracy theories, associates with a fundamentalist religious group in northern Stevens County and champions a push for a 51st state called “Liberty”. - His manifesto resembles the work of the Marble Community Fellowship, a Stevens County congregation practicing a strain of fundamentalist Christianity called “dominionism”, and which authored its own document referring to Jews as “anti-Christs” and condemning interracial marriage. Shea has been a featured speaker at Marble’s annual Fourth of July God and Country Celebration. - Shea visited right-wing activists during their armed occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Eastern Oregon in 2016. According to one of Shea’s prominent critics, “The goal of these groups has always been to create a white homeland consisting of Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, Oregon and Washington. The ideas presented in the (biblical war) document are how these groups intend to seize control, by force, should there be a governmental collapse or civil war.” So to the extent you claimed in #77 that maybe these were just Sunday school notes, you’ll be interested to know that the “Sunday school notes” are now being actively investigated by the FBI and the Joint Terrorism Task Force. Also as a matter of interest, [according to this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Shea#Controversy) Matt Shea was allegedly relieved of his weapons while serving in Iraq due to anger management issues, and accused of pulling a gun on another motorist in a road rage incident. Have I read too much into anything? ---
**Author:** ![pohjonen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pohjonen/32/423_2.png) [@pohjonen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pohjonen)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2018, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-do-you-most-want-to-lose/823483/102 "2018-11-01T04:01:33Z")
Here’s an [exhaustive article](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/matt-shea-washington-state-liberty-744850/) in Rolling Stone about Shea. He thinks he’s gonna be prez someday. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2018, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-do-you-most-want-to-lose/823483/103 "2018-11-01T04:05:47Z")
> [@pohjonen](#): > > Here’s an [exhaustive article](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/matt-shea-washington-state-liberty-744850/) in Rolling Stone about Shea. He thinks he’s gonna be prez someday. After 2016, one should never say ‘never’. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2018, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-do-you-most-want-to-lose/823483/104 "2018-11-01T04:21:30Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > … Have I read too much into anything? So I guess we’ll wait and see what, if anything, the FBI investigation turns up? ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2018, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-do-you-most-want-to-lose/823483/105 "2018-11-01T04:44:11Z")
That’s not how it works. The FBI’s job in this case is to determine if Shea should be charged with a federal crime, not to rule on whether he’s a raving lunatic, a premise that in this case needs no further confirmation based on the evidence. We also won’t know if he’s been placed on – or already is on – a federal watch list. I’d certainly want to keep an eye on this guy and his fellow white Christian warriors. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2018, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-do-you-most-want-to-lose/823483/106 "2018-11-01T04:51:07Z")
I think I’m starting to understand **HD** logic here. 1. Liberals talking to Republicans in an elevator; or making a ruckus while a politician is eating = mobs stirring up uncivil behavior that’s turning our nation to crap. 2. Conservatives writing plans for a Christian jihad = let’s just see where this is going… ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2018, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-do-you-most-want-to-lose/823483/107 "2018-11-01T05:28:51Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > That’s not how it works. The FBI’s job in this case is to determine if Shea should be charged with a federal crime… Yes, that’s what I meant by ‘see what, if anything, turns up’. From this post I assume we’re in agreement that the “document” is unlikely to result in any federal charges, despite your excited “being actively investigated by the FBI and the Joint Terrorism Task Force” line. > [@wolfpup](#): > > … not to rule on whether he’s a raving lunatic, a premise that in this case needs no further confirmation based on the evidence. … I’m comfortable letting the voters of his district make that determination. > [@wolfpup](#): > > … I’d certainly want to keep an eye on this guy and his fellow white Christian warriors. It’s not a surprise to me that you’d think this. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2018, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-do-you-most-want-to-lose/823483/108 "2018-11-01T06:46:10Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Yes, that’s what I meant by ‘see what, if anything, turns up’. From this post I assume we’re in agreement that the “document” is unlikely to result in any federal charges, despite your excited “being actively investigated by the FBI and the Joint Terrorism Task Force” line. > > I’m comfortable letting the voters of his district make that determination. You’re also apparently comfortable with his potential ascendancy to the presidency of the US: > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > After 2016, one should never say ‘never’. > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > It’s not a surprise to me that you’d think this. It’s not a surprise to me that you would defend a white-supremacist Christian jihadist, nor the fact that you acknowledge that voters – when sufficiently deluded – can elect virtually any lunatic to a position of great power. Which is obviously true, but the non-surprising part is that you approve, as long as the lunatic aligns with your own ideology. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2018, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-do-you-most-want-to-lose/823483/109 "2018-11-01T07:18:11Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > … a white-supremacist Christian jihadist… You keep bringing race into this: > [@wolfpup](#): > > … According to one of Shea’s prominent critics, "The goal of these groups has always been to create a white homeland consisting of Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, Oregon and Washington. … > [@wolfpup](#): > > … this guy and his fellow white Christian warriors. Other than you and “one of Shea’s prominent critics” claiming so, I don’t see any evidence for “white-supremacist”. There wasn’t anything overt in “Biblical Basis for War”, was there? (Maybe something more subtle? 10. f.?) Is there any, or are you just in full-on lefty rage mode and that just slips in there out of habit? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2018, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-do-you-most-want-to-lose/823483/110 "2018-11-01T13:45:24Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > The lady that called Arizona “the meth lab of democracy” Do you know anything about the context? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2018, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-do-you-most-want-to-lose/823483/111 "2018-11-01T14:05:40Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Do you know anything about the context? Yeah, conservatives seem to be working themselves into hysteria over this comment. It’s like Republicans are just looking for a reason to be offended and be in full-on rage mode because a non-Republican woman said something. I don’t see it as a big deal. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2018, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-do-you-most-want-to-lose/823483/112 "2018-11-01T14:16:19Z")
> [@pohjonen](#): > > I want to change my pick of Cathy McMorris Rodgers to my local state rep, Matt Shea, thanks to becoming aware of his [manifesto](http://www.khq.com/story/39387853/spokane-valley-representative-under-scrutiny-for-leaked-manifesto) outlining the “Biblical Basis for War” which are 14 steps for seizing power and instituting Christian law. > > God willing (heh), he will not be re-elected. +1 Matt Shea is a sovcit, right wing nut job. He’s been arrested for pulling a gun in a road rage incident. He went to Malheur in support of the Bundy’s. He recently attended the “New Code of the West” far-right gathering which happened to be in Whitefish, MT, home of alt-right douche Richard Spencer. And yet the idiots in his District keep re-electing him. I hope this time is different. Fuck him, his dream state of “Liberty” and the entire redoubt movement. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2018, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-do-you-most-want-to-lose/823483/113 "2018-11-01T14:19:34Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > What part of the Bible commands the faithful to demand of the vanquished that they not adhere to communism or perform abortions? Bingo. The end of Acts 2 describes in glowing terms a communistic society of believers. And the one verse in the Bible that _might_ have some bearing on abortion, Exodus 21:22, is apparently sufficiently ambiguous in the Hebrew that it’s translated different ways by different translators. Other evidence this document is prescriptive rather than descriptive is the inclusion of a small selection of New Testament verses that have nothing to do with war, such as James 4:8 and 4:17. If he was merely describing how the Old Testament places war in something like a moral context, these verses would have no place in this document. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2018, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-do-you-most-want-to-lose/823483/114 "2018-11-01T14:20:36Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > It’s like Republicans are just looking for a reason to be offended Fuck their feelings. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2018, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-do-you-most-want-to-lose/823483/115 "2018-11-01T15:39:36Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’ve been mulling over this question for several days now. My gut reaction was to say Menendez in NJ, because he’s corrupt. Feinstein was an early contender too, for her shennanigans during the Kavanaugh hearing. McCaskill, Donnelly, and Tester would be sweet because I’d love to see them really feel the pain of their Kavanaugh “no” votes (and I’m guessing Heitkamp already is going to). But, I’ve finally settled on my answer: [Ben McAdams, the Dem challenger in Utah’s 4th Congressional District](https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2018/house/ut/utah_4th_district_love_vs_mcadams-6285.html) (my district). If he wins he’ll be a stain (admittedly, probably a blue-colored and dog-shaped one) on Utah’s congressional delegation, a fly in the ointment, a black mark, a consistent disappointment. [Nice to see your commitment to honesty in government.](https://www.sltrib.com/news/politics/2018/09/10/mia-loves-campaign-refund/) I’m pleasantly surprised to see that, per 538, McAdams seems likely to win despite the very conservative leanings of the district. One thing you have to say for the Mormons, they aren’t generally willing to vote for a sleazy crook just because said sleazy crook shares their political opinions. Present company excepted, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2018, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-do-you-most-want-to-lose/823483/116 "2018-11-01T15:59:11Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > You keep bringing race into this: > > Other than you and “one of Shea’s prominent critics” claiming so, I don’t see any evidence for “white-supremacist”. There wasn’t anything overt in “Biblical Basis for War”, was there? (Maybe something more subtle? 10. f.?) Is there any, or are you just in full-on lefty rage mode and that just slips in there out of habit? The “prominent critic” mentioned is actually the Spokane County Sheriff, a Republican. He and his deputies have frequently faced death threats for his opposition to Shea. More [here.](https://www.inlander.com/spokane/manufacturing-fear/Content?oid=2534837) And yes, there is nothing in the manifesto explicitly about race. Apparently his call to slaughter non-Christians is color-blind, so that’s OK. And the group at whose gatherings he has repeatedly been a featured speaker hasn’t called Jews “anti-Christs” or called for banning interracial marriage since, um, 1988. Why, they even have a black member! So clearly, any suggestion that he might be racist is mere liberal slander.:rolleyes: and the fact that he’s comfortable sharing a platform with this guy: [spoiler]Marble Community Fellowship’s founder and leader, Barry Byrd, helped pen a 1988 manifesto called the Remnant Resolves. The document included passages stating that it’s blasphemous to call “antichrists” like Jews “the Chosen People” or to allow them to hold public office. It says that “Inter-racial marriage pollutes the integrity of marriage.” Since then, the Byrds have fervently condemned racism and distanced themselves from their former controversial church, The Ark in Colville. Marble Community Fellowship counts an African-American, Doug Taft, among its leadership. (More than once, Shea has pointed to his close friendship with Taft to counter accusations of racism.) Yet Marble’s break with racist ideology hasn’t been a clean one. Along with Shea, one of the key speakers at this year’s God and Country rally was Pastor John Weaver, who has a history: He’s praised the Confederacy in sermon after sermon. He’s put out a tract arguing that slavery is not inherently against Scripture and that some slaves “blessed the Lord” for saving them from Africa with their enslavement. He has called interracial marriage “a form of adultery.” “If God had desired that we intermarry and amalgamate and become one, why would he have begun the other races to begin with?” Weaver asked in one sermon in his gentle drawl.[/spoiler] shouldn’t cause anyone any concern at all. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2018, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-do-you-most-want-to-lose/823483/117 "2018-11-01T16:08:27Z")
And to the OP, I think I’ve changed my mind. In my best case scenario, the biggest loser would be Joe Manchin. Not necessarily in the sense that he would actually lose his seat, but that the Democrats would pick up enough seats elsewhere to be able to toss his traitorous ass to the curb. He wants to put a probable rapist on the Supreme Court, let him go caucus with the pro-rape party. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2018, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-do-you-most-want-to-lose/823483/118 "2018-11-01T22:44:29Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > And then there’s dead man walking Mike Coffman. +2 for this. I would add Ted Cruz, Maxine Waters and Wayne Williams (CO Secy of State). ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2018, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-do-you-most-want-to-lose/823483/119 "2018-11-01T23:10:23Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Do you know anything about the context? McSally’s campaign ad quoted Sinema out of context. In 2010, while addressing Netroots Nation, Sinema quoted a one-liner made by Jon Stewart, then the host of _The Daily Show_. > **[Kyrsten Sinema calls Arizona the "meth lab of democracy " | News Talk 550 KFYI](https://kfyi.iheart.com/alternate/amp/2018-10-12-kyrsten-sinema-calls-arizona-the-meth-lab-of-democracy-/)** > > She made the statements while speaking to Netroots in 2010. > **[Jon Stewart Calls Arizona "The Meth Lab of Democracy" in Response to Trifecta...](https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/jon-stewart-calls-arizona-the-meth-lab-of-democracy-in-response-to-trifecta-of-wild-west-legislation-6635528)** > > Just in case you missed it -- which, if you own a TV, radio, computer, newspaper, telegraph machine, or have talked to another human being anywhere in North America in the past few days, you probably haven't -- the Arizona Legislature passed a series... ---
**Author:** ![actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e79b87/32.png) [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/actualliberalnotoneofthose)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2018, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-do-you-most-want-to-lose/823483/120 "2018-11-01T23:54:30Z")
Mike DeWine (OH Gov. race), for political and personal reasons. Richard Cordray is not good either, though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-do-you-most-want-to-lose/823483.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-do-you-most-want-to-lose/823483.md?page=7)