# Who does \*not\* deserve reparations? (a separate discussion) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 24, 2019, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-does-not-deserve-reparations-a-separate-discussion/835972 "2019-06-24T15:45:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2019, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-does-not-deserve-reparations-a-separate-discussion/835972/61 "2019-06-24T23:03:34Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Well, let’s start at the beginning-Native Americans. Over four centuries of broken promises, stealing, persecution and death to make up for, and no chance in hell of coming anywhere close to making up for it mile radius. > > —- > > These aren’t even close to making up for what was done, but it would be useful as a constant reminder of what we did and what we are capable of doing again That’ll earn you a warning, Czarcasm. A moderator tells you to not do a thing you should not do it. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2019, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-does-not-deserve-reparations-a-separate-discussion/835972/62 "2019-06-24T23:21:27Z")
At last we learn who the true victims are: Christian white men. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-does-not-deserve-reparations-a-separate-discussion/835972/63 "2019-06-25T05:32:55Z")
Britain paid former slaveowners reparations when slavery was banned. And former colonies have had to pay reparations to the countries that seized the land and enslaved and mutilated the people they brought to work there (e.g. Haiti paid sizeable reparations to France). So there are two examples, what do I win? Or if we’re saying we should only look forwards to what we shouldn’t do, not past examples, the principle is that we shouldn’t acknowledge that X is wrong or should be illegal, and then pay reparations to the people who used to do X. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-does-not-deserve-reparations-a-separate-discussion/835972/64 "2019-06-25T07:05:44Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > The practical problem is that it’s one thing to say that the 80% owes reparations to the 20%. That \*\*\*might \*\*\*be doable. Unfortunately, when it’s the 20% that owes reparations to the 80%, that’s well nigh impossible. 20%…who have 95% of the money and other capital… ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-does-not-deserve-reparations-a-separate-discussion/835972/65 "2019-06-25T07:11:37Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > So, should white males historically subject to the draft be given reparations? I believe they _already were_ [given reparations…](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G.I._Bill) Are you just haggling about the amount? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-does-not-deserve-reparations-a-separate-discussion/835972/66 "2019-06-25T07:33:09Z")
Personally, I believe historically disadvantaged groups that are not currently suffering _overwhelming_ discrimination and haven’t for a while, should not be candidates for reparations at all. Some examples I can think of: Irish, Jews, Catholics, Mormons… For other groups, I’d prefer merely Affirmative Action-level reparations and other systemic advantages, not _also_ positive payment-based reparations - this is the level I’d set it at for e.g. LGBT+, women, Hispanics in general, African immigrants. I am undecided which of those groups Asian-Americans, Middle Easterners, and Muslims fit into, but hey, a study would help … I support positive financial reparations for Native Americans, Pacific Islanders, African-Americans (not Black Americans in general) and Mexican-Americans. I’m undecided whether Puerto Ricans should be included, or fall under “general Hispanic”, but my inclination is to include them in the positive reparations group. Groups are not mutually exclusive e.g an African-American Mormon _should_ be eligible for reparations. Suggesting _atheists_ deserve reparations will just get you a shrug from me. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-does-not-deserve-reparations-a-separate-discussion/835972/67 "2019-06-25T20:17:52Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Personally, I believe historically disadvantaged groups that are not currently suffering _overwhelming_ discrimination and haven’t for a while, should not be candidates for reparations at all. Some examples I can think of: Irish, Jews, Catholics, Mormons… > > For other groups, I’d prefer merely Affirmative Action-level reparations and other systemic advantages, not _also_ positive payment-based reparations - this is the level I’d set it at for e.g. LGBT+, women, Hispanics in general, African immigrants. > > I am undecided which of those groups Asian-Americans, Middle Easterners, and Muslims fit into, but hey, a study would help … > > I support positive financial reparations for Native Americans, Pacific Islanders, African-Americans (not Black Americans in general) and Mexican-Americans. > > I’m undecided whether Puerto Ricans should be included, or fall under “general Hispanic”, but my inclination is to include them in the positive reparations group. > > Groups are not mutually exclusive e.g an African-American Mormon _should_ be eligible for reparations. > > Suggesting _atheists_ deserve reparations will just get you a shrug from me. Is this about people in the U.S., or all over the world? Because if you think that Jews and Irish haven’t suffered in recent times, you’re dreaming. If people want to talk about what the U.S. has done to blacks and Native Americans, then they had better not dismiss what Britain (well, England) has done to Ireland since the 12-fucking-century. ☹ And the idea that Jews have it good nowadays? Seriously? As for financial, does this only go to poor, people of these groups, or all? Is someone like say, Lebron James or Kanye West eligible? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2019, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-does-not-deserve-reparations-a-separate-discussion/835972/68 "2019-06-26T09:03:18Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Is this about people in the U.S., or all over the world? The US. Not much call for reparations for Native Americans round these parts… Other places should have different reparation schemes. South Africa has ones related to Apartheid, for instance. There may be places where Jews still deserve reparations (I’m sure you’re aware Jews have already received Holocaust reparations). The US is not one of those places. > [@](#): > > And the idea that Jews have it good nowadays? Seriously? In the US? Yes, yes they do. Jews in the US no longer qualify as an oppressed people, _even with_ the occasional antisemitic attack. > [@](#): > > As for financial, does this only go to poor, people of these groups, or all? Anyone should be _eligible_ regardless of current financial circumstances. But it shouldn’t be an _automatic_ payment. And it would be public record. > [@](#): > > Is someone like say, Lebron James or Kanye West eligible? Yes. But the PR of rich eligible people actually taking the payment would be quite bad (this will not stop Kanye, I know) ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2019, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-does-not-deserve-reparations-a-separate-discussion/835972/69 "2019-06-26T13:24:55Z")
The country would just need to pack up and move to pay Native Americans what we owe them. We paid interned Japanese Americans reparations under Carter - the amounts involved were really insufficient. We owe women - we’ve had policies (varied a lot by state) that have held them in marital servitude - refusing them their own credit, making their property the property of their husbands, allowing marital abuse until the 1970s. We’ve refused to acknowledged marital rape in some states until very recent memory. Until the 1960s, birth control was not legal, keeping them further tied to their husbands through successive children. Those women are alive RIGHT NOW. I’m not that old. I’ve been the victim of a high school math teacher who refused to believe girls were any good at math. I’ve been witness to a group of men deciding not to promote a qualified and capable woman because ‘she might have a baby’ and refused to hire one because she 'wasn’t pretty enough." I once managed to get a raise (not back pay) when I discovered I was paid 30% less than the men in my job (as was the other woman in the job) - despite having more education, more experience, and being able to run statistics on the job that showed I did more with a higher success rate (I did homework before going into HR with the 1963 Equal Pay Act) ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2019, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-does-not-deserve-reparations-a-separate-discussion/835972/70 "2019-06-26T15:02:25Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Native Americans. They are being directly harmed, the U.S. government was responsible in the past and the present, and the chain of responsibility is there for all to see. What is your argument against this reparation proposal? In world history, the most common outcome was that the defeated or conquered people actually had to pay tribute or indemnity to the conquering people, not the other way around. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2019, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-does-not-deserve-reparations-a-separate-discussion/835972/71 "2019-06-26T15:12:30Z")
I think Velocity makes a great point. We’re all descended from somebody who has been oppressed. We all deserve reparations! I’d like to propose the following blanket reparation package, available to all Americans. 1. Universal health care. 2. Free college or vocational school for all. 3. A hike in the federal minimum wage. I guess we’ll have to raise taxes on the wealthy and corporations, but I’m happy to do it. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2019, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-does-not-deserve-reparations-a-separate-discussion/835972/72 "2019-06-26T17:34:45Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > I think Velocity makes a great point. We’re all descended from somebody who has been oppressed. We all deserve reparations! > > I’d like to propose the following blanket reparation package, available to all Americans. > > 1. Universal health care. > 2. Free college or vocational school for all. > 3. A hike in the federal minimum wage. > > I guess we’ll have to raise taxes on the wealthy and corporations, but I’m happy to do it. I like your ideas, except for #2, Free 2 years of college/vocational and the next two years heavily subsidized but not free. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2019, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-does-not-deserve-reparations-a-separate-discussion/835972/73 "2019-06-26T17:39:51Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > I think Velocity makes a great point. We’re all descended from somebody who has been oppressed. We all deserve reparations! > > I’d like to propose the following blanket reparation package, available to all Americans. > > 1. Universal health care. > 2. Free college or vocational school for all. > 3. A hike in the federal minimum wage. > > I guess we’ll have to raise taxes on the wealthy and corporations, but I’m happy to do it. Who does not deserve reparations? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2019, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-does-not-deserve-reparations-a-separate-discussion/835972/74 "2019-06-26T20:52:36Z")
Apparently, no one. If the answer to ‘reparations’ is universal, free stuff for everyone, then I guess we all get reparations. And it will be paid for by the reparations fairy. Or, we’re not talking about reparations at all, but rather just another tedious back-door argument for socialism. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-does-not-deserve-reparations-a-separate-discussion/835972/75 "2019-06-27T03:03:06Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > (this will not stop Kanye, I know) Well, that goes without saying. ---
**Author:** ![FavreCo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a698b9/32.png) [@FavreCo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FavreCo)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-does-not-deserve-reparations-a-separate-discussion/835972/76 "2019-06-27T03:18:18Z")
Absolutely no one deserves or will get reparations. Go find yourself a GD lawyer and attempt to sue someone for your . The USA is not giving you any free in the form of reparations. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-does-not-deserve-reparations-a-separate-discussion/835972/77 "2019-06-27T09:11:50Z")
> [@FavreCo](#): > > Absolutely no one deserves or will get reparations. Go find yourself a GD lawyer and attempt to sue someone for your . The USA is not giving you any free in the form of reparations. But they already have, as pointed out - reparations for interned Japanese, reparations for veterans…just no reparations for the people still being oppressed, who’ve been oppressed the longest. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-does-not-deserve-reparations-a-separate-discussion/835972/78 "2019-06-27T13:25:20Z")
The only people I can dismiss out of hand as deserving reparations are those who are currently in the top 5% of wealth and have had an absolute advantage from the existence of oppression. In America, I do not fit in either category as I consider voodoo economics, wasting my money on wars against my consent, and to a lesser degree, the lack of UHC to be oppression from which I need to be made whole, and any benefits I may have received in the job and education market are diminished by having to live in an inefficient economy and pay money for useless policing. If you look at the world as a whole, I do fall into these two categories, as we all benefit from European/American dominance of the world economy. It’s somewhat ironic because in an absolute sense I’m pretty sure that my Polish and Irish ancestors suffered more outright oppression than I did or else they wouldn’t have moved here, but if I don’t think others ancestor’s oppression should count then mine shouldn’t either. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-does-not-deserve-reparations-a-separate-discussion/835972/79 "2019-06-28T06:22:11Z")
I’m also going to disagree again that Jews shouldn’t be considered as an oppressed class here in the U.S. Especially after what happened right here in Pittsburgh last fall. You cannot think these are merely “occassional”. ---
**Author:** ![Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/4af34b/32.png) [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeke_N.Destroi)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-does-not-deserve-reparations-a-separate-discussion/835972/80 "2019-06-29T20:14:47Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Well, let’s start at the beginning-Native Americans. Over four centuries of broken promises, stealing, persecution and death to make up for, and no chance in hell of coming anywhere close to making up for it, but that doesn’t mean we should shrug our shoulders, say “Whatcha gonna do about it?” and walk away. Every American History book in every public school should have a public apology printed on the first page. Native American tribes should get first option on any public land the government puts up for sale at a deeply discounted rate. If there is a tribal casino operating, no other casino should be allowed within a fifty mile radius. > These aren’t even close to making up for what was done, but it would be useful as a constant reminder of what we did and what we are capable of doing again when it is convenient. Natives? Nope. Colonized under the rules of the time, their colonization was less atrocious than the vast majority, they are now enjoying the benefits of 21st century technology as opposed to the stone age they were in. In no way are reparations due them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-does-not-deserve-reparations-a-separate-discussion/835972.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-does-not-deserve-reparations-a-separate-discussion/835972.md?page=5)