# Who else \*doesn't\* know what the Benelux countries are? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 10, 2003, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-doesnt-know-what-the-benelux-countries-are/200833 "2003-09-10T20:18:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![LilyoftheValley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/54ee81/32.png) [@LilyoftheValley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilyoftheValley)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-doesnt-know-what-the-benelux-countries-are/200833/21 "2003-09-10T22:34:33Z")
I learned this in something like 7th grade (US public school). Seemed very easy to remember. Also from 7th grade: **DaddyTimesTwo** , do you know what the Low Countries are? ---
**Author:** ![Magickly\_Delicious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magickly\_Delicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magickly_Delicious)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-doesnt-know-what-the-benelux-countries-are/200833/22 "2003-09-10T22:47:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Belrix \* > \*\*I thought Benelux was a vacuum cleaner. > > It should be.\*\* The more I think about it, the more “Benelux” sounds like a drug. Wonder what it would do? ---
**Author:** ![Fang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/96bed5/32.png) [@Fang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fang)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-doesnt-know-what-the-benelux-countries-are/200833/23 "2003-09-10T22:57:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by friedo \* > \*\*I have never heard the term Benelux, but I know where Belgium, the Netherlands and Luxemburg are. I didn’t know they got their own special group nomenclature, though. Lucky bastards. \*\* Not quite fair, is it? Well, I suppose it rolls of the tongue better than Canerico. ---
**Author:** ![Queen\_Tonya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/4491bb/32.png) [@Queen\_Tonya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queen_Tonya)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-doesnt-know-what-the-benelux-countries-are/200833/24 "2003-09-10T23:28:01Z")
Don’t feel bad, **Daddy** , I was just as confuzzled as you. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![sjc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e5b9ba/32.png) [@sjc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sjc)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-doesnt-know-what-the-benelux-countries-are/200833/25 "2003-09-10T23:53:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chefguy \* > \*\*Netherlands=Holland; same country > > [Link](http://www.allexperts.com/previousqv.asp?QuestionID=3101384) \*\* I think the history of this is covered in one of the links given above, but I’ll give my memory of what the story is here for everyone’s ease of access. The area that became the Netherlands is (and historically was) made up smaller regions that are distinct from each other culturally and in other ways. In the past they weren’t necessarily a single country. Before their independence they, along with the area of land that became Belgium, were controlled by the Hapsburgs. Eventually they gained their independence from the Hapsburgs by revolting (I believe this wasn’t a short or easy process, but I only know a little about this part of the history). After their independence I believe they formed a coalition known as the United Provinces. In any case they weren’t one uniform country at that point, each region spoke a different dialect and had its own sense of identity. Though there may have been a shared identity it probably had a much to do with resisting outside rule than anything else. One of the regions was called Holland and it was one of the biggest (if not _the_ biggest) regions and the most wealthy. Because of this it had a large impact culturally and politically in the history of the larger entity of the Netherlands. Holland’s dialect was central to the development of the language we now know as Dutch. ## For English speakers The Netherlands was identified with Holland, and so we speak of Holland and The Netherlands interchangeably. (The Dutch speakers I have known seem to have no problem with this.) As for The Low Countries, the term refers to basially the same thing as the Benelux countries (though I’m not sure about Luxembourg being included in the designation). ---
**Author:** ![Casey1505](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dc4da7/32.png) [@Casey1505](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Casey1505)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-doesnt-know-what-the-benelux-countries-are/200833/26 "2003-09-11T01:03:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Terminus Est \* > \*\*Someone’s being whooshed here. > > Anyway, here’s your [map]([http://flagspot.net/flags/nl(.html)](http://flagspot.net/flags/nl(.html)). \*\* Didn’t think as many would take that so seriously. Several years ago (10-12, maybe more), Heineken had a billboard ad campaign with dumb pick up lines or something that guys would use to pick up girls in a bar. The point of the campaign, as I recall it, was something to the effect of “Don’t be fake, drink Heineken.” One of my favorite billboards was one that read, “Holland? That’s near The Netherlands, right?” (Heineken being Dutch made beer, the Dutch being from Holland, Holland being the same as The Netherlands. Of course, we all knew that, right? Well, so I thought.) Anyway, the contention that Holland and The Netherlands bordered each other was my ham-handed reference to that billboard. **Coldfire** , I apologize if any offense was taken. ---
**Author:** ![DaddyTimesTwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f07891/32.png) [@DaddyTimesTwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaddyTimesTwo)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-doesnt-know-what-the-benelux-countries-are/200833/27 "2003-09-11T01:13:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by LilyoftheValley \* > \*\*I learned this in something like 7th grade (US public school). Seemed very easy to remember. > > Also from 7th grade: **DaddyTimesTwo** , do you know what the Low Countries are? \*\* I’m being put on the spot, huh? 😉 Seeing as **sjc** pretty much ruined the party here, if I say I knew that the Low Countries meant at least “Holland” or “The Netherlands”, is anyone _really_ going to believe me anyway? And I wish I was clever enough to make that joke, **Belrix**. And **Casey1505** , I _thought_ that (Holland == The Netherlands), that’s why I wanted to see a map, dammit! But I wasn’t sure enough to question if I was being whooshed or not. And it’s good to know I’m not alone here. ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-doesnt-know-what-the-benelux-countries-are/200833/28 "2003-09-11T01:15:29Z")
I think I learned about the Benelux nations in about 5th grade social studies. Wow - I remember it 37 years later. Parochial school graduate here. StG ---
**Author:** ![Casey1505](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dc4da7/32.png) [@Casey1505](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Casey1505)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-doesnt-know-what-the-benelux-countries-are/200833/29 "2003-09-11T01:16:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DaddyTimesTwo \* > And **Casey1505** , I _thought_ that (Holland == The Netherlands), that’s why I wanted to see a map, dammit! But I wasn’t sure enough to question if I was being whooshed or not. And it’s good to know I’m not alone here. \*\* 😉 Like I said, it was a pretty weak joke… ---
**Author:** ![Mycroft\_Holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a5b964/32.png) [@Mycroft\_Holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mycroft_Holmes)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-doesnt-know-what-the-benelux-countries-are/200833/30 "2003-09-11T11:19:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sjc \* > \*\*One of the regions was called Holland and it was one of the biggest (if not _the_ biggest) regions and the most wealthy. Because of this it had a large impact culturally and politically in the history of the larger entity of the Netherlands. Holland’s dialect was central to the development of the language we now know as Dutch. > > For English speakers The Netherlands was identified with Holland, and so we speak of Holland and The Netherlands interchangeably. (The Dutch speakers I have known seem to have no problem with this.) > \*\* To this very day, the Netherlands is divided into provinces, two of which happen to be **Zuid-Holland** (roughly the area around The Hague, Leiden, and Rotterdam and reaching almost north to Amsterdam.) and **Noord-Holland** which includes Amsterdam, and points to the north. The other provinces in the Netherlands are: **Groningen, Fryslan, Drenthe, Overijssel, Utrecht, Zeeland, Noord-Brabant, Limburg** and **Flevoland**. As already mentioned these provinces differ quite a bit culturally and in their dialects. The southern provinces **Noord-Brabant** and **Limburg** are predominantly Roman Catholic, while the northern provinces are predominantly Dutch Reformed. Also, some of these provinces remained loyal to the Spanish Hapsburgs longer than others in the long revolt spoken of. Now what I still can’t figure is how the Dutch can stand to sing the line “Wilhelmus van Nassauwe ben ik van Duitse bloed” in their national anthem. They’re admitting their King was German!!! Well, actually it’s true considering he was born in Dillenburg, which is roughly between Frankfurt and Cologne. The whole history of the Dutch revolt against the Spanish Hapsburgs is very interesting by the way. Especially the way William of Nassau would change his mind about his own beliefs. He was born Lutheran, then became Roman Catholic (and even became a “Knight of the Golden Fleece”), and then became Lutheran again after his break with King Philip of Spain (mostly due to the excesses of the Spanish Inquisition). ---
**Author:** ![Angua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8baadc/32.png) [@Angua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angua)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-doesnt-know-what-the-benelux-countries-are/200833/31 "2003-09-11T11:27:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by friedo \* > \*\*I have never heard the term Benelux, but I know where Belgium, the Netherlands and Luxemburg are. I didn’t know they got their own special group nomenclature, though. Lucky bastards. \*\* Many many moons back, before the EU, before the EC and well before the EEC, the three countries of Belgium, the Netherlands and Luxembourg had their own free trade area - Benelux. This was eventually expanded to become the EEC, and the rest is history. ---
**Author:** ![Fish\_Cheer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fish_cheer/32/17179_2.png) [@Fish\_Cheer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish_Cheer)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-doesnt-know-what-the-benelux-countries-are/200833/32 "2003-09-11T11:47:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Angua \* > \*\*This was eventually expanded to become the EEC, and the rest is history. \*\* Hmm, even though the Benelux clearly is older than the EEC, I don’t think you could actually call it its predecessor. IIRC, the EEC is based on the European Coal and Steel Community (stemming from the Schuman declaration). ---
**Author:** ![Angua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8baadc/32.png) [@Angua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angua)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-doesnt-know-what-the-benelux-countries-are/200833/33 "2003-09-11T11:58:24Z")
Sorry, you’re right. My mistake. IIRC, Benelux was eventually incorporated into the EEC. ---
**Author:** ![Fish\_Cheer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fish_cheer/32/17179_2.png) [@Fish\_Cheer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish_Cheer)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-doesnt-know-what-the-benelux-countries-are/200833/34 "2003-09-11T13:15:30Z")
Of course. The Benelux countries were in right from the start. > [@](#): > > _From [The EU at a glance](http://europa.eu.int/abc/history/1951/index_en.htm) ff.:_ > > April 18, 1951 > The Six (Belgium, France, Germany, Italy, Luxembourg, Netherlands) sign the Treaty of Paris establishing the European Coal and Steel Community (ECSC). > > March 25, 1957 > The Treaties establishing the European Economic Community (EEC) and the European Atomic Energy Community (Euratom) are signed by the Six (Belgium, France, Germany, Italy, Luxembourg, Netherlands) in Rome. As of today they will be referred to as the “Treaties of Rome”. I was unable to ascertain whether any of the original treaties between the three of them are still in force on top of the whole EU business, though. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-doesnt-know-what-the-benelux-countries-are/200833/35 "2003-09-11T18:28:58Z")
I had a vague idea of where they were and if I had a few more clues I _probably_ would have figured it out. Probably. ---
**Author:** ![Tusculan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecd19e/32.png) [@Tusculan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tusculan)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-doesnt-know-what-the-benelux-countries-are/200833/36 "2003-09-11T20:31:12Z")
**fishcheer15** , at the [official Benelux site](http://www.benelux.be) they try very hard to convince us that it still exists and is active. Since it’s only in Dutch and French, you’ll have to take my word for it if you don’t read either of these languages. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-doesnt-know-what-the-benelux-countries-are/200833/37 "2003-09-11T21:08:17Z")
It’s where they make that healthy margarine, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-doesnt-know-what-the-benelux-countries-are/200833/38 "2003-09-11T21:12:47Z")
I’d never even heard the term until less than a week ago here on the SDMB. I even had a roommate from Belgium for a couple years. I must not have been paying attention. ---
**Author:** ![Zweistein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/54ee81/32.png) [@Zweistein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zweistein)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-doesnt-know-what-the-benelux-countries-are/200833/39 "2003-09-11T22:13:30Z")
Benelux in short: Netherlands : Cheese Belgium : Beer Luxemburg : Tax paradise Would you want to live elsewhere ? ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-doesnt-know-what-the-benelux-countries-are/200833/40 "2003-09-11T22:56:58Z")
I would say I don’t know for certain. Though if asked as a test I would have got it right. This sort of information is better kept in books or computers than relying on fallable memory, unless Benelux is a term you use frequently. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-doesnt-know-what-the-benelux-countries-are/200833.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-doesnt-know-what-the-benelux-countries-are/200833.md?page=3)