# Who else drives a manual transmission by choice...or am I the only one left??? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 21, 2012, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-drives-a-manual-transmission-by-choice-or-am-i-the-only-one-left/644716 "2012-12-21T07:25:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![SpeedwayRyan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@SpeedwayRyan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpeedwayRyan)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2012, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-drives-a-manual-transmission-by-choice-or-am-i-the-only-one-left/644716/121 "2012-12-22T13:54:12Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > I love it. I’ve got about 74,000 miles on it now. It handles great, feels very solid and planted on the road. It’s faster than the stock 90 & 91 Mustangs, especially once you’re going 10 or 20 MPH it flies. It’s fun putting a little scare in the passengers when they don’t expect such acceleration. I can get 27 MPG and it’s got 4 doors, so people can get into and out of the back seat without doing the awkward loading/unloading process. Mazdas seem to have good quality and the dealer treated me right during the turbo replacement, I got a new Jetta as a rental car during the time I didn’t have my Mazda. Thanks! It might well be my next car…appreciate the review. ---
**Author:** ![Krouget](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b38774/32.png) [@Krouget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krouget)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2012, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-drives-a-manual-transmission-by-choice-or-am-i-the-only-one-left/644716/122 "2012-12-22T15:44:39Z")
> [@echo7tango](#): > > Mrs. Tango and I have a long-running debate, which is better? Is it better to learn to drive on an automatic first, and after learning to drive then you learn how to work a stick shift? Or is it easier to learn how to drive on a stick shift car? > > What do people think? I wouldn’t define what’s “better”, but between the two, there is less potential for error, when learning on an automatic (objectively, there is less multi-tasking, which I think is the big problem drivers have when they’re new). However, where there is a will, there is a way, and for most people who drive manual, it’s because they enjoy it; I’d go as far to say, that people who take the initiative to learn manual, typically consider driving to be a more active and involved experience, which I’d correlate to more conscious drivers, in \*some \*aspects (there are always exceptions, and speaking only of the US). > [@echo7tango](#): > > I dream of buying a brand-new Porsche 911, that’s my dream car. I understand their manu-matic transmission, called PDK, is excellent and shifts faster than the manual. I’d seriously consider the PDK tranny if I bought a new 911. Almost the best of both worlds, and I can put it in full-auto if I was in stop-and-go. These gearboxes are pretty much the evolution of the standard transmission, IMO. Part of the purpose of the manual gearbox is to keep the engine within a certain point of its powerband, as intended by the driver, and these do exactly that. The main difference is that they’re faster, leave less room for error, and don’t have the downsides, such as missed gear shifts and stalling. In fact, in my experience, the only time it behaves any differently, is in overheating situations (it will then cut off manual control), but that’s understandable and a good thing. I will say, though, that I don’t find daily driving to be dynamic enough, to really get the most joy from them. Moving from stoplight to stoplight just doesn’t warrant gearshifts at fractions of a second. To note, I’d specify that these are traits of performance-intended gearboxes, since they’re not all created equal. Just as not all manual gearboxes (and clutches) are created equal, neither are other types of transmissions. The versions sold in most commuter cars, are done for marketing, but don’t really represent the positive qualities of the higher-end gearboxes. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2012, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-drives-a-manual-transmission-by-choice-or-am-i-the-only-one-left/644716/123 "2012-12-22T16:29:01Z")
I lost my last manual trans car to hurricane Floyd. Then I was married to someone who did not want to learn. It made no sense to have two cars and with one she couldn’t drive. What if here was in the shop? During my separation when it was time to get a new one I went with a manual again. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2012, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-drives-a-manual-transmission-by-choice-or-am-i-the-only-one-left/644716/124 "2012-12-22T17:03:18Z")
> [@echo7tango](#): > > Really? Do you have a cite for that? I thought ABS and TC were optional, not required. Traction control or more correctly Electronic Stability Control is mandatory under US NHTSA regulations for passenger road vehicles \<5 tons GVW sold starting Sept. 2011. Since most ESCs work using the ABS system at least in part, this de-facto imposes having an ABS on board. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2012, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-drives-a-manual-transmission-by-choice-or-am-i-the-only-one-left/644716/125 "2012-12-22T17:19:02Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Traction control or more correctly Electronic Stability Control is mandatory under US NHTSA regulations for passenger road vehicles \<5 tons GVW sold starting Sept. 2011. Since most ESCs work using the ABS system at least in part, this de-facto imposes having an ABS on board. Wow, cool, thanks for that. Ignorance reduced! ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2012, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-drives-a-manual-transmission-by-choice-or-am-i-the-only-one-left/644716/126 "2012-12-22T17:26:31Z")
I enjoyed driving a stick shift (had manual transmission on a Volvo long ago and more recently in a Mazda Miata). I’d like to drive a sports car with manual one more time. I like the process of shifting gears and hearing the engine respond and until recently I could tell myself I was getting better gas mileage. The downside is that manual transmission is kind of a pain if you’re in the middle of slow, stop and start traffic or you have to start up in hilly terrain. Gas mileage has gotten to basically be a non-issue now in comparison to automatic transmission. And there’s enough to pay attention to while driving without having to shift. It’s a matter of preference, and if stick advocates think they are more virtuous and talented in comparison to non-stick drivers, that strikes me as self-delusional. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2012, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-drives-a-manual-transmission-by-choice-or-am-i-the-only-one-left/644716/127 "2012-12-22T17:41:11Z")
I’m in the US and have always driven cars with manual transmissions. It is, however, becoming a lot more difficult to find one with a manual transmission here. I taught my wife how to drive a manual with her first car. She’s rarely driven automatics. Once was a loaner from the dealership when her old car was in for service. We’re both very uncomfortable driving automatics, and avoid them at all costs. The challenge is rental car companies in the US don’t carry manual transmission vehicles anymore and I travel for work quite a bit. My wife now has the 2012 VW Beetle. We scoured NJ to find one with a manual transmission; there were only 3 in the entire state, and only 1 with the specs my wife wanted. The car is sick. It’s larger than previous generations, and with the turbo the pick-up is so unexpected that it’s a little scary. She loves the completely hands free phone and navi that she simply speaks her commands to, and the sound system is awesome. The most important feature for her, however, by far, is that it has a manual transmission. I have the 2011 Honda CR-Z, a car that, in my opinion, is made for a manual transmission, but I had a difficult time finding one with it. I also have a 2004 Porsche Boxster (pics [here](http://www.pcars.us/albums/4367_porsche_cars.jpg), [here](http://www.pcars.us/albums/4366_porsche_cars.jpg), and [here](http://www.pcars.us/albums/4365_porsche_cars.jpg)). You may say “Well, duh, of course that has a manual transmission. It’s a Porsche” but Porsche has begun incorporating automatic transmissions into their sports vehicle lines, at least for the US market. Yes, I know, a travesty! ---
**Author:** ![MacTech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2012, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-drives-a-manual-transmission-by-choice-or-am-i-the-only-one-left/644716/128 "2012-12-22T18:18:23Z")
For those that say they “can’t” drive a manual, let me just say this… I’ve been teaching my eleven year old nephew to drive a manual (my '07 VW Rabbit), I showed him the basics, what would happen if he popped the clutch, and deliberately stalled it for him so he would understand what would happen worst case His first time behind the week, indeed his first time pulling off from a standstill was executed flawlessly, I even taught him how to back down the driveway (we have a long driveway), he did a good dozen starts from a dead stop, not once did he stall it, not once did he overrev it he performed flawlessly each time… I couldn’t wipe the grin off his face, he absolutely loved the experience, he’s firmly decided that not only will his first car be a manual, but he wants a classic British roadster like a Bugeye Sprite or MG Midget Just doing my part to save the manual from oblivion ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2012, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-drives-a-manual-transmission-by-choice-or-am-i-the-only-one-left/644716/129 "2012-12-22T18:51:29Z")
> [@](#): > > Just doing my part to save the manual from oblivion certification requirements will do in the manual, regardless of what people like you do. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2012, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-drives-a-manual-transmission-by-choice-or-am-i-the-only-one-left/644716/130 "2012-12-22T21:38:15Z")
> [@MacTech](#): > > For those that say they “can’t” drive a manual, let me just say this… > > I’ve been teaching my eleven year old nephew to drive a manual (my '07 VW Rabbit), I showed him the basics, what would happen if he popped the clutch, and deliberately stalled it for him so he would understand what would happen worst case > > His first time behind the week, indeed his first time pulling off from a standstill was executed flawlessly, I even taught him how to back down the driveway (we have a long driveway), he did a good dozen starts from a dead stop, not once did he stall it, not once did he overrev it he performed flawlessly each time… > > I couldn’t wipe the grin off his face, he absolutely loved the experience, he’s firmly decided that not only will his first car be a manual, but he wants a classic British roadster like a Bugeye Sprite or MG Midget So what? I “can’t” drive a manual, but I’m sure I could learn if I was interested. I also “can’t” ride a horse, spin yarn out of wool, churn butter, or perform many other once-everyday tasks that are now niche hobbies. Not enjoying an obsolete hobby isn’t a character weakness or whatever the snark-quotes were supposed to signify. ---
**Author:** ![GMLS2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/65b543/32.png) [@GMLS2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GMLS2)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2012, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-drives-a-manual-transmission-by-choice-or-am-i-the-only-one-left/644716/131 "2012-12-23T00:15:50Z")
50 miles daily commute, 1.5 hours each way. To me, auto’s are so much better for daily driving. Plus as the poster above mentioned, if you are tipsy, you can let others drive your car. i think most modern ATs are more fuel efficient and shifts faster than modern MTs. i don’t believe in engine braking as brake pads and rotors are cheaper in comparison to the drivetrain. i see only 2 real advantages to MT: 1. cost - much cheaper to repair than auto tranny 2. With a RWD (not sure about AWD, never owned one), if you feel the need to drive like hooligan, kick or dump clutch, initiate wheelspin, opposite lock, add throttle, voila! fishtailing/drifting/donuts. To do the same in an AT and you need a brake-stand or a power-over, but less control to initiate wheeelspin again should your car suddenly find traction again. lose the 3rd petal and give me the center cupholders over the shifter any day. dunno anything about trucks neither. there may be a need for MT in the off-roading and towing/hauling world. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2012, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-drives-a-manual-transmission-by-choice-or-am-i-the-only-one-left/644716/132 "2012-12-23T00:19:42Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > certification requirements will do in the manual, regardless of what people like you do. What do you mean by this? People will need to be certified to drive a manual transmission car? ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2012, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-drives-a-manual-transmission-by-choice-or-am-i-the-only-one-left/644716/133 "2012-12-23T00:35:55Z")
no, I mean things like emissions, fuel economy, and safety. a harsh shift (i.e. a rapid change in engine RPM) can cause the engine to burp out a load of pollutants, and as emissions regs get tighter it’ll get harder to clean those up. For fuel economy, manuals are limited in the number of forward gear ratios they can practically have. As engines get smaller and more efficient, they’re also getting peakier in their power delivery. Transmissions/transaxles will need more gear ratios to keep the engine working where it’s more efficient. 6 speeds seems to be where manuals tend to top out; I know Porsche has a 7-speed but it gets really hard to get more gears than that in a manual without going to a tractor-trailer-style double countershaft transmission. And I doubt too many people want to deal with twin-stick gearshifts. as far as safety goes, each configuration of a vehicle has to undergo things like crash testing. As manuals become less and less popular, automakers have to make the decision on whether the sales of a manual-transmission version of a particular car will offset the costs to certify it. manual transmissions are dying. Deal with it. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2012, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-drives-a-manual-transmission-by-choice-or-am-i-the-only-one-left/644716/134 "2012-12-23T00:48:28Z")
> [@GMLS2](#): > > i don’t believe in engine braking as brake pads and rotors are cheaper in comparison to the drivetrain. Yes, but the fair economic comparison is whether it is cheaper over the course of the ownership of the vehicle (leaving aside drivers’ individual preference for engine+pedal braking vs. pedal-only braking). I understand your point, that brake pads and discs/rotors are relatively cheap to replace, not least because they are designed to be replaced, but it is still possible that engine braking is more economical. For example, imagine that the use of engine braking causes a drive train to fail at 150,000 miles instead of 200,000 miles. For most car owners, it makes no difference, since they will no longer own the car at that point. If they save a brake change or two because they use engine braking, they might even be better off. I’m not saying that this is why drivers might prefer engine braking. Just questioning the economic argument against it. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2012, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-drives-a-manual-transmission-by-choice-or-am-i-the-only-one-left/644716/135 "2012-12-23T03:23:43Z")
I grew up on automatics, and never drove a standard until I was in my early 30s. But once I made the switch, there was no going back. ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2012, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-drives-a-manual-transmission-by-choice-or-am-i-the-only-one-left/644716/136 "2012-12-23T03:35:48Z")
I’m 49 years old and have never owned a vehicle with a slushbox. That would be three cars ( I buy them young, run them 'till they are dead) and 6 motorcycles. I’ve driven automatics plenty, owned by rental companies, or the people I was working for…just don’t care for them. I rode dirt bikes before I had a driver’s license, so NOT shifting seemed weird. ---
**Author:** ![GMLS2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/65b543/32.png) [@GMLS2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GMLS2)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2012, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-drives-a-manual-transmission-by-choice-or-am-i-the-only-one-left/644716/137 "2012-12-23T08:24:51Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > Yes, but the fair economic comparison is whether it is cheaper over the course of the ownership of the vehicle (leaving aside drivers’ individual preference for engine+pedal braking vs. pedal-only braking). I understand your point, that brake pads and discs/rotors are relatively cheap to replace, not least because they are designed to be replaced, but it is still possible that engine braking is more economical. > > For example, imagine that the use of engine braking causes a drive train to fail at 150,000 miles instead of 200,000 miles. For most car owners, it makes no difference, since they will no longer own the car at that point. If they save a brake change or two because they use engine braking, they might even be better off. > > I’m not saying that this is why drivers might prefer engine braking. Just questioning the economic argument against it. Good point. I did not consider this perspective. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2012, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-drives-a-manual-transmission-by-choice-or-am-i-the-only-one-left/644716/138 "2012-12-23T16:58:19Z")
ETA: Never mind. My question was answered. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2012, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-drives-a-manual-transmission-by-choice-or-am-i-the-only-one-left/644716/139 "2012-12-23T17:48:20Z")
At this point, most of the benefits of a manual transmission have been mitigated. In many cases, a modern [CVT](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuously_variable_transmission) can provide better fuel economy than most people who are skilled at driving manual. The paddle shifters can give you a lot of the same subtlety of control, without the drawbacks (and yes paddle shifters are available with CVTs). Downshifting of course was always available on an automatic; it’s just a shame most automatic drivers are totally clueless about it and its uses. Even repair costs these days are mostly a wash between them (automatics cost more to repair, but need it less.) What benefits are left for manual transmissions? They’re still cheaper for an up front purchase, although harder to sell later on. They’re a minor deterrence to car theft. _But they’re still a heck of lot more fun to drive._ ETA: except in stop-and-go traffic. ---
**Author:** ![galen\_ubal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galen_ubal/32/4440_2.png) [@galen\_ubal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen_ubal)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2012, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-drives-a-manual-transmission-by-choice-or-am-i-the-only-one-left/644716/140 "2012-12-23T20:13:12Z")
Benefits of driving a manual: 1)More fun 2)Drive pretty much anyone’s car. Mind you, for most Americans, this is a pretty uncommon benefit; how often do you need to drive someone else’s car? 3)Feeling superior C’mon, people; I can drive (and prefer) a manual, but it isn’t going to ensure my admittance into Paradise. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-drives-a-manual-transmission-by-choice-or-am-i-the-only-one-left/644716.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-drives-a-manual-transmission-by-choice-or-am-i-the-only-one-left/644716.md?page=8)