# Who else has read 'Wild Cards'? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 23, 2004, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-has-read-wild-cards/235852 "2004-03-23T04:42:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2004, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-has-read-wild-cards/235852/21 "2004-03-23T20:01:26Z")
> [@MacSpon](#): > > From a quick check on Amazon, it looks like _Deuces Down_ is only out in hardcover so far. (2002 release.) That’ll be why I don’t have it yet. > > I like the books, but I don’t like them _that_ much… 🙂 I got my copies many, many years ago from the science fiction book club. ---
**Author:** ![Santos\_L\_Halper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/santos_l_halper/32/1_2.png) [@Santos\_L\_Halper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santos_L_Halper)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2004, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-has-read-wild-cards/235852/22 "2004-03-24T08:18:42Z")
> [@SanguineSpider](#): > > Any parts that you didn’t like as much? I’m just cracking open #12 and I’ve got the next three in the other series to go, too. Hmm, it’s hard to keep track of all the different story-lines and characters. Because there’s just so much going on throughout all the books and the titles pretty much give no hint as to what the book’s about. 🙂 I thought book 12 was pretty good, but maybe a bit weak compared to some of the others. Books 13-15 had a bit of a different feel, but were really good taking the storyline in sort of a different direction. Yeah, _Demise_ is a cool, creepy character. I’d also forgotten about the whole deal with that ‘parasite’ that attach himself to people and take control of them. How about _Billy Ray_, who was super strong and nearly indestructable. Even dying didn’t stop him - although they sometimes mentioned that he was a rotting corpse underneath his costume. 🙂 Or the guy that could gain the memories of a dead person by eating their brains… Yes, _the Puppetmaster_ was a great, totally evil monster, and yet his “alter-ego” _Gregg Hartmann_ was a sympathetic character. And I agree with **gonzoron** that _the Great and Powerful Turtle_ is one of my favorites. Talking about these great stories has me wanting to work my way through the series all over again! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Death](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecccb3/32.png) [@Evil\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Death)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2004, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-has-read-wild-cards/235852/23 "2004-03-25T00:34:16Z")
> [@Santos L Halper](#): > > How about _Billy Ray_, who was super strong and nearly indestructable. Even dying didn’t stop him - although they sometimes mentioned that he was a rotting corpse underneath his costume. 🙂 You’re conflating. Billy Ray is Carnifex, Hartmann’s former bodyguard whose powers are enhanced strength (minor) and regeneration. The guy you’re thinking of is Bobby Joe “Crypt Kicker” Puckett, a water-tower sniper whose wild card was triggered by his death and who was dragooned into working with George Battle; his powers are enhanced strength (major), enhanced toughness (major), and the ability to exude toxic waste from his body. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Death](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecccb3/32.png) [@Evil\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Death)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2004, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-has-read-wild-cards/235852/24 "2004-03-25T00:39:20Z")
Goddamn, hit post too soon. I was going to add my surprise that nobody had yet mentioned Croyd Crenson, whose form and powers alter every time he goes to sleep. Created by Roger Zelazny - I believe the story about Croyd in Card Sharks is the last thing Zelazny wrote before his death - he’s probably the single most interesting character in the books. Problem is, only Zelazny really wrote him well. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2004, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-has-read-wild-cards/235852/25 "2004-03-25T02:08:46Z")
How the heck did I miss out on “Deuces Down”? I’ve gotta get that one now. But I really didn’t enjoy the new cycle books as much as the first 12. ---
**Author:** ![Brainiac4](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brainiac4/32/3534_2.png) [@Brainiac4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brainiac4)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2004, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-has-read-wild-cards/235852/26 "2004-03-25T03:51:33Z")
Ah, heck. Now I need to go back and get copies of all of them so I can re-read them… I read the first 6 or so as library books, since I was poorish at the time. I’ll third (? I think) the motion for \*\*The Great and Powerful Turtle \*\* as the best of the bunch, although I have a special place in my heart for \*\*Golden Boy \*\* as well – he’s such a great tragic figure. ---
**Author:** ![Santos\_L\_Halper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/santos_l_halper/32/1_2.png) [@Santos\_L\_Halper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santos_L_Halper)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2004, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-has-read-wild-cards/235852/27 "2004-03-25T07:45:24Z")
> [@Evil Death](#): > > You’re conflating. I know. I really should see a doctor about that… 🙂 You’re right, I mixed up the two names. Like I said, there are too many characters to keep track of them all. Thanks for the reminders about _Golden Boy_ and _Croyd Crenson (the Sleeper)_. The previuosly mentioned brain-eating guy was called _Deadhead_ and the parasite guy was _Ti Malice_. The writer were incredibly imaginative coming up with appealing (or sometimes disturbing) characters and their powers. Often a person would make a minor appearance or even just be mentioned in passing and I’d be disappointed we couldn’t follow them along on a whole seperate story to find out more about them. All in all it’s an incredibly rich universe George R. R. Martin and the writers created. Eric ---
**Author:** ![Sketch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Sketch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sketch)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2004, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-has-read-wild-cards/235852/28 "2004-03-25T08:09:14Z")
So how are these books compared to Martin’s A Song of Ice and Fire? I’m a huge fan of the latter and actually saw these in the bookstore the other day. Would you recommend them, or are they totally different from Martin’s fantasy series? ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2004, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-has-read-wild-cards/235852/29 "2004-03-25T16:04:56Z")
Oh man, I forgot all about Croyd. Yeah, he was awesome. And Dr. Finn, the Centaur. I liked him a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2004, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-has-read-wild-cards/235852/30 "2004-03-25T18:51:14Z")
I enjoyed the whole Puppetmaster saga, and its ending. ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2004, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-has-read-wild-cards/235852/31 "2004-03-25T20:00:27Z")
Actually, while I enjoyed the first couple of books, the one where The Astronomer gets his revenge just turned me right off. Part of it was that for that book many of the perspective characters were the ones I liked least, and part of it was that I was more than a little disappointed when the character I most liked had his heart ripped out of his chest in public for no other reason than to issue a challenge to another character. I’m not saying it was an unfair blow, or that it was unreasonable from the villian’s perspective. I just prefer my fiction to be a bit more escapist than that. If I want that kind of callousness, I can go back to the newspapers. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Death](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecccb3/32.png) [@Evil\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Death)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2004, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-has-read-wild-cards/235852/32 "2004-03-25T20:03:09Z")
> [@Sketch](#): > > Would you recommend them, or are they totally different from Martin’s fantasy series? Why the separation? I’d recommend them _and_ they’re totally different. ---
**Author:** ![Saltire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saltire/32/553_2.png) [@Saltire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saltire)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2004, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-has-read-wild-cards/235852/33 "2004-03-25T20:39:55Z")
Loved those books! My biggest problem was that George Martin was and is such a busy guy that he wrote stories in only about half of the books. Since **The Great and Powerful Turtle** was his character, this lead to too few Turtle stories. I love the Turtle. My favorite moment from the entire series: Golden Boy’s artistic comment about _Evita_ in the middle of a super-battle, destroying the piano on which a guy was playing “Don’t Cry for Me, Argentina” in _Ace in the Hole._ “Didn’t I tell you to stop playing that song?” ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2004, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-has-read-wild-cards/235852/34 "2004-03-25T20:57:32Z")
Damn now I have to go out and get them again. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![SanguineSpider](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@SanguineSpider](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanguineSpider)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2004, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-has-read-wild-cards/235852/35 "2004-03-25T21:05:50Z")
I’m sorry guys… I just wanted to share my enthusiasm for this unique series. I’d like to thank my SO for letting me borrow them: Thanks, babe! You ROCK! ---
**Author:** ![Aguecheek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a9adbd/32.png) [@Aguecheek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aguecheek)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2004, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-has-read-wild-cards/235852/36 "2004-03-25T23:58:58Z")
Got the first one when I was 12 or so. Loved it loved it loved it. Ended up getting the rest of the series that went up to 4 or so at the time - and never thought to look again to see what was published later. I was reminded of the series last year when someone here posted another thread about it and bought every freakin’ book via Amazon and [half.com](http://half.com). Loved all of them except the last, Deuces Down. Meh. My wife, incidentally, who could be described as rather…lukewarm towards any fantasy/science fiction story, fell in love with the series and was constantly nagging at me to finish the one I was reading so she could get her hands on it. My faves - Popinjay, The Turtle, The Sleeper. My wife’s - Dr. Tachyon, Dr. Tachyon, Dr. Tachyon. Incidentally, it was the Wild Card series that led me to _A Song of Ice and Fire_, and I’ve been anxiously awaiting A Feast for Crows for a year and a half now. Ack! ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2004, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-has-read-wild-cards/235852/37 "2004-03-26T00:37:37Z")
I held out through book nine, but the jumper storyline just got too weird to really hold my interest. That, and the authors’ habit of bumping off some of their most interesting characters. I absolutely loved the first and second book, though… and the one where Puppetman makes his run for the White House is utterly brilliant. I still have the old GURPS Wild Cards book, though. Wish they’d published an updated version; it’s only current up through the events of “Ace In The Hole.” ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Death](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecccb3/32.png) [@Evil\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Death)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2004, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-has-read-wild-cards/235852/38 "2004-03-26T00:48:44Z")
> [@Saltire](#): > > My favorite moment from the entire series: Golden Boy’s artistic comment about _Evita_ in the middle of a super-battle, destroying the piano on which a guy was playing “Don’t Cry for Me, Argentina” in _Ace in the Hole._ “Didn’t I tell you to stop playing that song?” Sorry to be on pedant mode again, Saltire, but you’re also conflating two scenes. First is the one where Braun breaks off a piece of the pianist’s tip bowl, grinds it into powder in his fist, then pours it into the man’s pocket and says he’ll kill him if he plays the song again. The second is when he’s fighting Mackie Messer - another superb character whose omission from comment is surprising - and he falls off a high balcony after the momentum of a punch carries him through the insubstantial assassin; as he falls, he realises he’s going to land on the piano and thinks that at least he won’t have to hear the song again. Which reminds me - how about Wild Card Oscars? I’ll list my candidates, but feel free to pick your own. Most Interesting Power Criteria - this should be a totally off-the-wall concept as far diverged from the traditional comic style as possible. Mark Meadows (Captain Trips) - manifests suppressed aspects of his personality by the ingestion of drugs. Croyd Crenson (The Sleeper) - alters form and powers every time he sleeps, sometimes becoming a joker. Danielle Shepherd (Legion) - generates psychically-linked replicas of herself. Best Conceptualised Power Criteria - These powers should function with an eye to the realities of the situation. Joann Jefferson (Lady Black) - her body absorbs energy and she can emit this energy in powerful bursts, but as a consequence she has to wear a double-sided cape to contain the energy and anyone who actually touched her bare skin would be killed. Mackie Messer - while he possess both the power to become insubstantial and to cause parts of his body to vibrate fast enough to cut through flesh, he can’t do both at the same time. Blythe van Renssaeler (Brain Trust) - her ability to absorb the knowledge and memories of other people led to great mental strain, culminating in an extreme multiple personality disorder. Most Human Character Criteria - these people aren’t superheroes or villains, just men and women with gifts. They should be people first and wild cards second. Tom Tudbury (The Great and Powerful Turtle) David Harstein (The Envoy) James Spector (Demise) Chrysalis (Debra Jo Jory) If you can come up with another category, do feel free. ---
**Author:** ![Saltire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saltire/32/553_2.png) [@Saltire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saltire)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2004, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-has-read-wild-cards/235852/39 "2004-03-26T01:44:00Z")
> [@Evil Death](#): > > Sorry to be on pedant mode again, Saltire, but you’re also conflating two scenes. First is the one where Braun breaks off a piece of the pianist’s tip bowl, grinds it into powder in his fist, then pours it into the man’s pocket and says he’ll kill him if he plays the song again. The second is when he’s fighting Mackie Messer - another superb character whose omission from comment is surprising - and he falls off a high balcony after the momentum of a punch carries him through the insubstantial assassin; as he falls, he realises he’s going to land on the piano and thinks that at least he won’t have to hear the song again. Actually, I knew the quote I put in at the end wasn’t in that scene, as Braun and the piano ended up in the basement, while the pianist presumably stayed up on the main floor. But I’m almost sure I remember the fool was actually playing the song (even after the threat you describe) as Braun is attempting to aim for the piano (the bottom of the atrium was full of people, so he figured the piano was the impact point least likely to get anyone hurt). I’m also quite aware that it wasn’t actually an artistic critique–his hatred of the song came from having had a hand in toppling the Peron regime and meeting Juan and Eva in person. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2004, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-has-read-wild-cards/235852/40 "2004-03-26T07:48:08Z")
Not suprisingly, to me they were very uneven. I did like the Sleeper, I’ll admit. The concept was very interesting. Not enough real heroes, however. That novel where they have a pet mutant that can switch personaes around, and what they did to to Alien Doc was the worst, however. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-has-read-wild-cards/235852.md?page=1)