Who else hates European soccer (or football)?

Hate? Not at all. No moreso than (American) football, baseball, hockey, basketball, tennis, or any other activity involving people getting very emotional over watching other people trying to control the behavior of a small object. At least it’s not horses or cars racing round and round and round in an oval for six hours, or people beating the hell out of each other while pretending to beat the hell out of each other even moreso than they really are. [sub]Hmm. What sports have I missed hitting with insulting reductions to absurdity? It’s late, or I’d do a better job.[/sub]

Add to that I don’t like crowds, regardless of whether they’re rioting or not. Of course, I do prefer the non-rioting ones, but that’s simply a matter of the lesser of two evils.

I guess that in my OP, I shouldn’t have mentioned that I thought soccer is boring. It wasn’t really necessary, and it apparently distracted many of you from my real point. My only point is that its just not organized in a way that there is some ultimate championship to shoot for. I believe that at the end of a season, there should only be one “satisfied” or “happy” team.

Aside 1: No American sports were designed for TV. But there have been some time outs added for commercial breaks in basketball and football, without really impacting the games much. If anything, they help build suspense, provide breaks for the viewers, give players needed breaks to perform better, and allow coaches more time to strategize.

Aside 2: No matter how you slice it up, sponsors and advertisers keep sports leagues running. Owners can’t be expected to pay out multi-million dollar salaries on attendence revenues alone. So Americans have to watch a commercial every 15 minutes or so. I’d prefer that to watching sponsor names on my team’s uniform for the entire game. Most soccer teams don’t even have the team name on its own jerseys because of the sponsor logos.

Aside 3: Baseball, which can be boring to watch for the virgin eye, is the most perfect game ever invented by man. There are so many nuances and strategies and skills involved that we would have to dedicate and entire full-time website to it in order to give it appropriate justice. As Bob Costas said: “Baseball is proof that God exists.”

Interesting take…

Re: aside 1 – if ad breaks truly increased suspense, wouldn’t they be more common in cinemas? I mean, I’m sure “Psycho” would be a whole lot scarier with some commercials every fifteen minutes. Can’t really agree with you on that idea…!

Re: aside 2 – football manages sponsorship just fine. I’m not convinced by your shirt sponsorship argument, really. How can a single logo on a shirt worn by a player constantly running around (and therefore hardly visible) be more irritating than a stop-start sports event with no flow? And, incidentally, most soccer teams (well, all the ones I can think of) have never had their names on their shirts, even before sponsorship.

Re: aside 3 – try looking up some football tactics websites! There’s enough formations, playing styles and approaches to the game and the tactics to make your brain bleed! (not knocking baseball, of course)

Ok, then, back to the OP

Except to respond to Snooooopy who accuse me of …

I didn’t fall back on it, I was standing right up on it the whole time. But I’m sure you knew that and you just want to see me have a meltdown, you cheeky bastard. :wink:

Where was I? Oh yeah, the OP. Yes it is confusing. But you have to go back to Coldfire’s comments about the cultural differences. They’ve been doing things that way in Europe for a looooong time. I’m sure you average Brit in America sees our systems a little baffling too. For example …

Brit: “Is this the NFL?”
Yank: “Yes, that’s the Buccaneers, they’re in the NFC, and the other team is the Jets, they’re in the AFC.”
Brit: “I thought you said it was the NFL.”
Yank: “Yes, but you see there used to be an AFL and an NFL, and now there’s just the NFL, but inside of that you have the AFC and the NFC.”
Brit: “Ok, slow down, I think I’m getting it, eh what.”
Yank: “Ok now Tampa is in the NFC Central and New York is in the AFC East. There are two other divisions in each conference.”
Brit: “Isn’t it all one big thing? Why is a team from one area in a different conference playing a team from a completely different area in a completely different conference?”
Yank: “How else are we going to figure out who the World Champion is.”
Brit: “Yeah, but what about the Scotland Claymores?”

Personally, I can’t understand all the goings on in Europing football either, but I do know something about it that I like. Relegation and Promotion. I think that’s so cool. The worst four teams in the league don’t get to play with the big boys next year. And the best four teams from the “minor” league (Premiere vs. Division 1 in England) get to move up. That just sounds so darned American. You’re rewarded for doing good and punished for doing poorly.

Once more I’m able to display my remarkable, coding, spelling and grammar skills.

RE: Re: Aside 1 – I’m sorry, but your analogy is not quite logical. The point is that everyone needs a break: the players, the fans, the coaches and the referees. Perhaps commercial breaks would improve the game of soccer. Now, players generally get tired and then just stand around for minutes or fake injuries.

RE: Re: Aside 2 – The point here is that soccer is dependant on sponsors and advertisers just like the American sports. And at least players have their Nike or Reebok logos small enough to preserve the integrity of their uniforms. You’ll never see Michael Jordan or Derek Jeter with NIKE or GATORADE draped across their chests like soccer players wear. The uniform should be a symbol of the team and worn with pride, and not made to make your player look like a prostitute for JVC or SONY.

RE: Re: Aside 3 – No argument here.

I guess we’ll just have to disagree on ad breaks, then! My analogy referred only to your saying that breaks build suspense. Personally, they do nothing for me to build suspense, and I like matches that get a chance (referee permitting) to build up a flow or rhythm without interruption. I guess if I’d been brought up to expect breaks I’d find the lack of them odd.

As for the shirts…well, it doesn’t bother me at all. Money is so entrenched in football now I don’t believe players ever really play out of love or loyalty, so pride in the shirt is fairly meaningless to me. Whether it’s sponsorship on the kit, or the stadium, or billboards – it’s all the same in the end.

I like that idea, too. The high schools around here do it. The only drawback is that you might win the lower division with a whole bunch of seniors, and next year you’re in the upper division with a team that doesn’t have any of the players who helped you get to the upper division in the first place, and you get smooshed.

Some of your confusion about the organisation of major events in soccer is caused by truly international nature of soccer and the way it is almost political.First you need to draw a distinction between club competitions and international competitions.

International teams take the name of the country in which they play and players themselves are selected by the manager hired by that countrys soccer administrative bodies.The manager need not be a national of the team he manages

Club teams are usually based within a city or district and often have players of many nationalities playing for them.(Chelsea is notorious for having only two Englishmen playing for them yet they are based in London)
The top club teams have players who are so good that they also have been selected to reprsent their nation.

The players qualify for selection of a national team based on their ancestry but this can be confusing because there have been notorious cases where the selected palyer has say an Irish Aunt or whatever but has never set foot in that country, it’s a rule that is creatively interpreted.

Once a player has been selected and has played for a particular national team though they generally cannot change, though means do exist such as taking citizenship of the selcting nation and on being resident there for a certain period.

FIFA - Is the body that organises the majority of world international matches and all the important international tournaments.

FIFA has divided the world up into regions and runs competitions within those regions, the two most important are Europe, and South America.These regional competitions culminate in a regional series of finals every four years.

The teams are organised in mini-leagues, I will not go into the way these mini-groups are determined as it may get too complex and boring.

Suffice to say,
Every national team is rated by FIFA according to a complex and sometimes arbitary system of rules according to their results. It is a distinct advantage to be classed as one of the higher rated teams as it means you don’t get to meet other favourites in the early stages of the tournament.

FIFA also runs the world cup soccer tournament every 4 years, in between the regional competitions, and their playoff system is similar to the regional competitions.
Ok now on to the regions themselves.
Each region has its own governing body, in Europe it is EUFA which promotes the interests of its member nations and clubs to FIFA.

EUFA is in fact a very powerful organistion since it is based in soccers ‘centre of gravity’ and as such can and does force changes in FIFA policy.

EUFA organises some regional international matches but is more responsible for organising international club fixtures.
These are competitions that pit the top European soccer clubs against each other, but to qualify for these competitions a club must either win their own domestic trophies or be placed in the top two or three in thier own domestic leagues.

Taking a step down from regional level we have National domestic Leagues.
To many soccer supporters the domestic leagues and cup competitionas are far more important than the regional and world championships.

In England there is more than one body organising soccer but there is little overlap and their competitions complement each other nicely.

I think I’ll leave it there for a while but you can see why there apears to be so many tournaments, there are anomolies but in general what you have is a heirarchy of soccer.

World Cup internationals.FIFA
Regional Internationals.FIFA and EUFA
Regional Club Internationals.EUFA, African Nations, etc
National League and cup competition. English(or whatever nationality) Football Association(EFA)

I think that it would be wise to leave out the organisation of amateur soccer which seems to vary at times as often as the British weather.

To avoid any confusion, casdave meant UEFA rather than EUFA.