# Who else isn't watching American Sniper? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 19, 2015, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-isnt-watching-american-sniper/710252 "2015-01-19T03:48:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-isnt-watching-american-sniper/710252/21 "2015-01-19T13:18:05Z")
What do we have in mind exactly when we’re calling an Eastwood film subversive? Someone above described Gran Turismo as subversive due to a Christ metaphor? To me a Christ metaphor is almost certain to be the opposite of subversive. It’s only the most pervasive and foundational metaphor in Western culture. It could be subversive (though likely hamfisted) if the person who is playing Christ in the metaphor is somehow a surprise, but is it so in the case of that film? (I haven’t seen it.) What else about his films are subversive? I saw the two WWII ones that came out close to each other and didn’t think either was “subversive.” Did I miss something? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-isnt-watching-american-sniper/710252/22 "2015-01-19T13:32:02Z")
I agree that Eastwood’s films aren’t subversive. But a film doesn’t have to be subversive to be good, or profound. Nor does it have to have just one unified point of view. Eastwood’s a fox, not a hedgehog. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-isnt-watching-american-sniper/710252/23 "2015-01-19T13:47:05Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > A sniper’s least important role his whoring himself out as “I killed more mooks than anyone! Hoo rah! Pay me! Movie rights here I come!” “Movie rights here I come”? Do you actually know anything about Chris Kyle? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-isnt-watching-american-sniper/710252/24 "2015-01-19T14:12:59Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I agree that Eastwood’s films aren’t subversive. But a film doesn’t have to be subversive to be good, or profound. Nor does it have to have just one unified point of view. Eastwood’s a fox, not a hedgehog. For the most part I don’t think he is. (Though Unforgiven is pretty subversive to the western genre.) But neither is he as simplistic as the OP makes it sound. For the most part Eastwood makes good and thoughtful films. Certainly not rah rah America fuck yeah movies. But of course how can you argue with a movie critique from someone that hasn’t seen the movie? Probably the only movie he has directed that might fit the OP’s viewpoint is Heartbreak Ridge. But even that was more of a character study than anything else. And it was 30 years ago. On a side note, holy shit I’m getting old. ---
**Author:** ![Ken001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/43a26b/32.png) [@Ken001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ken001)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-isnt-watching-american-sniper/710252/25 "2015-01-19T15:10:42Z")
As a non-American I found Chris Kyle’s book interesting and worth reading but didn’t like the man himself. A little too macho and self-aware. So I haven’t been interested in the movie until now - if Eastwood has produced a more nuanced and complex story then I’d want to see that. ---
**Author:** ![BOOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c4cdca/32.png) [@BOOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BOOM)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-isnt-watching-american-sniper/710252/26 "2015-01-19T15:11:05Z")
On any artistic level I can perceive, this is just insanely distasteful. There are plenty of ways to examine human character, this isn’t one. Coming soon to a multiplex near you: ‘Al-queda IED Hero’ - the true story of a tortured soul killing and maiming US invaders, in graphic detail. How completely lost in some American Mid-west provincialism do you have to be. Urh. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-isnt-watching-american-sniper/710252/27 "2015-01-19T15:36:52Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > What do we have in mind exactly when we’re calling an Eastwood film subversive? > > Someone above described Gran Turismo as subversive due to a Christ metaphor? To me a Christ metaphor is almost certain to be the opposite of subversive. It’s only the most pervasive and foundational metaphor in Western culture. It could be subversive (though likely hamfisted) if the person who is playing Christ in the metaphor is somehow a surprise, but is it so in the case of that film? (I haven’t seen it.) > > What else about his films are subversive? I saw the two WWII ones that came out close to each other and didn’t think either was “subversive.” Did I miss something? It’s “Gran Torino”, and it sucked balls. Don’t bother. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-isnt-watching-american-sniper/710252/28 "2015-01-19T15:42:05Z")
> [@BOOM](#): > > On any artistic level I can perceive, this is just insanely distasteful. There are plenty of ways to examine human character, this isn’t one. So how many ways can you examine the human character when it is exposed to war without setting it in a war? Or should movies ignore combat altogether? Or only do movies set in WWII? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-isnt-watching-american-sniper/710252/29 "2015-01-19T15:56:18Z")
> [@BOOM](#): > > On any artistic level I can perceive, this is just insanely distasteful. There are plenty of ways to examine human character, this isn’t one. > Coming soon to a multiplex near you: ‘Al-queda IED Hero’ - the true story of a tortured soul killing and maiming US invaders, in graphic detail. Actually, that could make a very interesting movie, but the title wouldn’t get past the marketing department. > [@](#): > > How completely lost in some American Mid-west provincialism do you have to be. Urh. Well, pardon us. Next time, we’ll make something that has to do with the absurdity of life and the nothingness of being. ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-isnt-watching-american-sniper/710252/30 "2015-01-19T16:09:50Z")
I’m not really interested in seeing this and I like, for the most part, war films. I’ve been reading about the book and Chris Kyle says that he killed two carjackers, that he was sent to New Orleans to shoot rioters after Katrina, and that he punched out Jesse Ventura for talking smack in a SEAL bar. Spreading bullshit seems to counter what a Navy SEAL should be and I don’t feel like supporting him or his widow. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-isnt-watching-american-sniper/710252/31 "2015-01-19T16:11:33Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Clint Eastwood masturbating the flag and making a mass killer into Captain America. If you’re talking about the fictional character Captain America, he’s killed way more people than Kyle did. ---
**Author:** ![Emtar\_KronJonDerSohn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/58956e/32.png) [@Emtar\_KronJonDerSohn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emtar_KronJonDerSohn)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-isnt-watching-american-sniper/710252/32 "2015-01-19T17:07:43Z")
I remember running into an old friend at a movie theater many years ago. I had just seen Kill Bill and he said it was a terrible movie and he hated it. I asked what he didn’t like about it and how it differed from what he expected of a Tarantino movie called “Kill Bill.” He admitted to not having seen the movie and not having any intention to ever see the movie, but “in what way does it contribute to the glory and edification of the body of Christ?!?” :smack: Really? ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-isnt-watching-american-sniper/710252/33 "2015-01-19T17:12:32Z")
Me. I must not have seen it a dozen times this weekend alone. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-isnt-watching-american-sniper/710252/34 "2015-01-19T17:14:18Z")
I for some reason don’t like Bradley Cooper but this movie looks interesting. I wouldn’t go to the theater but would watch it on Netflix if that becomes an option. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-isnt-watching-american-sniper/710252/35 "2015-01-19T17:27:58Z")
> [@Poysyn](#): > > The book was excellent, and didn’t paint Chris Kyle as a hero or a Sniper God - he himself states quite clearly many of his shots (including the record-breaker) were a lot of luck. > In the book. I liked how they tackled the issues that many military members have with balancing love for their family with loyalty to their country and fellow brothers/sisters in uniform. I hope they demonstrate this struggle in the movie. Yeah, in the book there was a lot of discussion from both him and his wife about how he always put the military above his family, and the problems that this caused his wife. He also admits a lot of his success was just him having more targets to shoot at, not any special skill on his part. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-isnt-watching-american-sniper/710252/36 "2015-01-19T17:31:45Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > A sniper’s most important role is providing support cover for our troops. There are literally thousands of our men that returned home safely because of skilled American snipers. > > I suggest reading a couple books on snipers. Kyle’s is very good. I’m currently reading Nick ‘Irv’ Irving’s book The Reaper. He’s a former Former Army Ranger that had 33 kills in Iraq. > [Amazon.com: The Reaper: Autobiography of One of the Deadliest Special Ops Snipers: 0884134855237: Irving, Nicholas, Brozek, Gary: Books](http://www.amazon.com/Reaper-Autobiography-Deadliest-Special-Snipers/dp/1250045444/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1421647012&sr=8-1&keywords=the+reaper) > > I plan to see American Sniper this week. Howard Wasdin’s book was good too. > **[Amazon.com: SEAL Team Six: Memoirs of an Elite Navy SEAL Sniper: 9781250006950:...](https://www.amazon.com/SEAL-Team-Six-Memoirs-Sniper/dp/1250006953)** > > Amazon.com: SEAL Team Six: Memoirs of an Elite Navy SEAL Sniper: 9781250006950: Wasdin, Howard E., Templin, Stephen: Books ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-isnt-watching-american-sniper/710252/37 "2015-01-19T17:34:16Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Yeah, he should have known that when we send our guys to war, they should kill only 1 or 2 of the enemy. Then come home and STFU. If you are a bloodthirsty murderer shutting the fuck up should be pretty high on the list, yes. Kyle was the type of guy right wingers would demand the entire nation of islam apologize for and condemn if he was on their side. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-isnt-watching-american-sniper/710252/38 "2015-01-19T17:47:27Z")
Any movie that makes that f\*\*\* Michael Moore go so far as to call ALL snipers cowards…is all right with me. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-isnt-watching-american-sniper/710252/39 "2015-01-19T18:24:42Z")
I don’t go to movies. Just curious. How do you masturbate a flag? How do you know when you are done? Fireworks? ---
**Author:** ![chargerrich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chargerrich/32/5399_2.png) [@chargerrich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chargerrich)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-isnt-watching-american-sniper/710252/40 "2015-01-19T19:26:24Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Clint Eastwood masturbating the flag and making a mass killer into Captain America. Captain America would puke. And the guy himself, mass killing and writing a book about it and pretending he’s not stealth bragging about being a mass killer. He’s so self-important he feels just fine telling God what God should think. I imagine if God had a problem with the killing, he’d pop God’s ass. Wonder how that worked out? > > I’d like to watch Bradley Cooper’s performance, but I can’t bring myself to pay money for this movie. (IMO) You.have.it.all.wrong I found the move to be both an excellent and accurate (to the book) movie about a loyal patriot who did his job and did it very well while also being very human and troubled by his actions. That said your bias against the subject matter is obvious and the movie will not change that, in fact it will only serve to solidify it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-isnt-watching-american-sniper/710252.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-isnt-watching-american-sniper/710252.md?page=3)