# Who else voted 3rd party? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 8, 2020, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-voted-3rd-party/927574 "2020-12-08T14:43:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8baadc/32.png) [@Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nicest_of_the_Damned)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2020, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-voted-3rd-party/927574/21 "2020-12-08T18:16:46Z")
Obviously it would not. But I have spent years being lectured by Democrats that this (first past the post) is the system we have so I need to strategize my vote accordingly and work to change the system if that makes me unhappy. So we worked to change the system and were blocked, clearly by lots of people who are Democrats. I reject the idea that it is solely _my_ responsibility to change the system and that I am obligated to vote in a way that pleases them until that happens when clearly they are not invested in any change. They should realize it’s in their best interests too if they want to avoid the “spoiler” effect. Why do you find it petulant? You can disagree with my vote and my reasons for voting the way I do but you have no reason to assume I don’t have any logic behind my choices. Just because you have different ideas doesn’t mean my thinking is immature. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2020, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-voted-3rd-party/927574/22 "2020-12-08T18:26:51Z")
**Modnote** : This joke post is in bad taste and is sexualizing a politician(s). We are strongly discouraging this now. Please do not repeat. _This is just a guidance, not a warning. Nothing on your permanent record._ ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2020, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-voted-3rd-party/927574/23 "2020-12-08T18:32:19Z")
> [@Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](#): > > Obviously it would not. But I have spent years being lectured by Democrats that this (first past the post) is the system we have so I need to strategize my vote accordingly and work to change the system if that makes me unhappy. So we worked to change the system and were blocked, clearly by lots of people who are Democrats. So punishing everyone, including a bunch of people who did vote for it is the answer? > [@](#): > > I reject the idea that it is solely _my_ responsibility to change the system and that I am obligated to vote in a way that pleases them until that happens when clearly they are not invested in any change. They should realize it’s in their best interests too if they want to avoid the “spoiler” effect. Of course it’s not solely your responsibility. But if you’re in a boat that sinking, and some people want to bail water, and some people want to shoot the floor of the boat, you can at least help the bailers, even if they aren’t using the sort of bucket you’d prefer. IMHO, anyway. Real humans were in danger of suffering and death because people vote third party. > [@](#): > > Why do you find it petulant? You can disagree with my vote and my reasons for voting the way I do but you have no reason to assume I don’t have any logic behind my choices. Just because you have different ideas doesn’t mean my thinking is immature. I said it seemed petulant because you said: > [@Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](#): > > I voted Green in Massachusetts. If local Democrats are upset about that they should have voted for RCV. I took that as sounding like you see your vote as a punishment to local Dems for not doing what you want. If that wasn’t your intent, I take it back. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2020, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-voted-3rd-party/927574/24 "2020-12-08T18:32:51Z")
Well I wasn’t expecting that. Sure. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2020, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-voted-3rd-party/927574/25 "2020-12-08T18:43:03Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > The last time I voted third party was in 1980, when I voted for John Anderson Hey, me too. ---
**Author:** ![Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8baadc/32.png) [@Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nicest_of_the_Damned)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2020, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-voted-3rd-party/927574/26 "2020-12-08T18:44:13Z")
I don’t vote as punishment. I don’t vote as “protest.” I never said anything about punishing Democrats. They want my vote to go to the Democrat. If we had ranked choice voting my vote would have gone to the Democrat instead of the Green (I mean, it wouldn’t have because Biden got more than 50% of the vote but Biden would have been my second ranked choice). My point is _they_ are not behaving rationally toward achieve their goal. (Yes, I realize in practical terms it would not apply to this election but in principle) ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2020, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-voted-3rd-party/927574/27 "2020-12-08T18:46:16Z")
Fair enough. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2020, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-voted-3rd-party/927574/28 "2020-12-08T18:50:33Z")
I’m sure Biden will be OK , I just strongly prefer someone like Yang who did not spend basically his whole adult life in DC. Of the major Dems running Biden would have probably been my last choice . I’m really tired of 2 major parties dominating the US. Perot was a nut but he got 19%. And in the summer of 92 he was actually leading in the polls before he quit. To me that shows how much people want another choice ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2020, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-voted-3rd-party/927574/29 "2020-12-08T18:58:35Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > To me that shows how much people want another choice I want another choice, too. 364 days a year work for an expanded menu. But on the one day you have to order, order from the menu as it is, not as you’d like it to be. Because if your order from an ideal menu instead of the actual menu, nobody takes your order. ---
**Author:** ![Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8baadc/32.png) [@Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nicest_of_the_Damned)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2020, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-voted-3rd-party/927574/30 "2020-12-08T19:00:25Z")
It was the actual menu. The candidate I voted for fulfilled all the requirements to get on the ballot in my state. ---
**Author:** ![sitchensis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sitchensis/32/4892_2.png) [@sitchensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sitchensis)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2020, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-voted-3rd-party/927574/31 "2020-12-08T19:04:28Z")
In a parliamentary system they form coalitions. I think individual voters should form coalitions. You want more progressive candidates. Vote progressive when it makes sense. Push a progressive agenda. Push for progressive candidates at lower levels of government. Give money to progressive causes. But when it comes time to vote in elections where there is no viable progressive candidate. Vote for the coalition. Partner with another party that best helps you get what you want. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2020, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-voted-3rd-party/927574/32 "2020-12-08T19:13:27Z")
> [@Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](#): > > It was the actual menu. The candidate I voted for fulfilled all the requirements to get on the ballot in my state. You 100% knew you wouldn’t get that meal. The chance you’d get the third party candidate was 0%. I’ve said a lot about this in the past. As someone who loathes both parties but who recognizes that one is significantly worse than the other, I have no patience with progressives who refuse to put in the 364 days of work each year to change the system and who flaunt their third party vote one day a year, as if that’s anything other than an abdication of responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2020, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-voted-3rd-party/927574/33 "2020-12-08T19:15:27Z")
[Here’s a recent thing I’ve said on the subject:](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/58-000-000-americans-have-voted-so-far-10-25/923885/36) > [@](#): > > I see it as a trolley problem. > > We’ve got this train coming up to an intersection. I’m a lefty, so I don’t see either path as particularly great. Down one path, train’s gonna squish a fair number of people. Down the other path, it’s gonna squish a huge tremendous number of people. > > And 156 MILLION voters have their hands on the engine and are pushing the train toward one of those tracks. > > You also have your greens and libertarians, saying, “Hey, both of those tracks are bad, I can’t push toward either of them. I’m gonna push the train in this other direction! And why should the train even need to go on tracks anyway?” > > To which I say, “Look, I agree, the tracks are bullshit, we should have a different system. But right now, _right now_ , we have this failed system in front of us. You know the train only goes on the tracks, and you haven’t taken the time or effort to build a plausible alternative set of tracks, and you know for damn sure that the train’s not going to go anywhere except on one of these two tracks in front of us.” > > If you don’t agree with me that one of those sets of tracks leads to a significantly worse outcome than the other–if you genuinely believe that each set of tracks has precisely equivalent outcomes–then let’s talk about that. But if you do believe that one set of tracks is worse than the other, then please, please, PLEASE join me in pushing the train toward the less-bad set. > > You don’t have to approve of that set. You don’t have to feel happy about it. And when the train gets on that set, join me in trying to slow it down and interfere with it so fewer people get squished, and maybe even start building an alternative set of tracks, or what the hell, start modifying the train so it doesn’t need tracks anyway. > > But right now, in this moment, we don’t have time to do that before the train gets to the intersection. All we can do is push the train onto one of those two sets. Anything else is abdicating moral power and responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2020, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-voted-3rd-party/927574/34 "2020-12-08T19:20:59Z")
In the US 3rd parties are viewed as fringe with unusual ideas and that is mostly true so they cannot gain traction. . We need a middle party , not ones on the fringe. For example libertarians want to cut too much of government. They have been around 50 years and are going nowhere. We need a party that is liberal on social ideas but also more conservative in taxes and spending. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2020, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-voted-3rd-party/927574/35 "2020-12-08T19:23:06Z")
Not a wasted vote, a vote for trump. Thinking trump and Biden were :“just as bad” was exactly what the Kremlin and the GOP wanted you to think. However, the different was black and white. Now sure, I can see the reasoning about long term career politicians. So, then I hope you voted for Yang or someone similar in the primary, that is the right thing to do. But if you were “mostly OK with Harris” then you should have voted for her ticket. I dont see how you could possibly think Hawkins, a self described Anarcho-communist, was better than Biden. I mean the man is a total loser and crackpot. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2020, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-voted-3rd-party/927574/36 "2020-12-08T19:31:08Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > For example libertarians want to cut too much of government. They have been around 50 years and are going nowhere. I’d like Libertarians to fail, so regard this advice as directed not directly at them: you can’t build a skyscraper starting with the roof. Any third party needs to build power from the ground up. If you can’t compete in local politics so that you control a single city, how can you possibly hope to compete in state politics? Work first to run local candidates, and build a powerful bench. Gain control of several city councils or county commissions. Gain the mayoral office. Then start eyeing state-level offices, including the state legislature, judicial offices, and even the governorship. Only look at congress once you’ve got control of multiple state legislatures; and only look at the presidency once you’ve elected a third of the senators or representatives. If you can’t move local politics, you’re wasting your time at the national level. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2020, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-voted-3rd-party/927574/37 "2020-12-08T19:31:21Z")
never said Hawkins was better than Biden did I? I knew he had 0 chance of winning. So my vote was a protest vote and that’s OK for me. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2020, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-voted-3rd-party/927574/38 "2020-12-08T19:34:33Z")
You did by voting for him. Protest votes are totally meaningless. All you did is help trump. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2020, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-voted-3rd-party/927574/39 "2020-12-08T19:38:24Z")
> [@sitchensis](#): > > In a parliamentary system they form coalitions. I think individual voters should form coalitions. Coalition forming is a feature of all democracies, not just multi-party parliamentary systems. The difference is that in those democracies, the coalition forming happens after the election. In the US system, the coalition forming happens before the election. And those coalitions have long-standing identities and names: The Democratic and Republican parties. However, the members of those coalitions do shift over time. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2020, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-voted-3rd-party/927574/40 "2020-12-08T19:38:47Z")
320 million people in the US and we only get 2 choices for president? That’s just a total joke. I get 50 choices of cereal to buy. The 2 main parties will fight very hard to make sure there is not a viable 3rd party. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-voted-3rd-party/927574.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-else-voted-3rd-party/927574.md?page=3)