# Who exactly is an "Arab"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 19, 2012, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-exactly-is-an-arab/610080 "2012-01-19T23:23:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Surreal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@Surreal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Surreal)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-exactly-is-an-arab/610080/21 "2012-01-20T16:14:04Z")
It’s absurd because the term “Arab” is very seldom used in any sort of linguistic context and the linguistic context is certainly not “by far the most common” context. The Arab oil embargo could not have been the Tagalog oil embargo. The Arab spring could not be the Esperanto spring. The Arab-Israeli conflict could not have been the Hindi-Israeli conflict. It’s not about language. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-exactly-is-an-arab/610080/22 "2012-01-20T16:31:27Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Have there been any DNA studies? One can tell if a Jew is a Levite from his or her DNA, for example. DNA studies are statistical in nature, and wouldn’t necessarily tell you about specific individuals. One cannot tell from DNA if a person is a Levite. There is a certain Haplogroup that is more prevalent among Levites, but it’s not a definitive test-- I think it’s about 50% accurate, and only among Ashkenazi Jews. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-exactly-is-an-arab/610080/23 "2012-01-20T17:30:33Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Of course in the West it just means “muslim”, like “Turk” once did. Let’s not overgeneralize. Many people in the West use the terms interchangeably, but not all. And certainly not in any official capacity. And I don’t know how common this is outside the US, but let’s remember that “the West” is a lot bigger than the US. > [@Surreal](#): > > It’s absurd because the term “Arab” is very seldom used in any sort of linguistic context and the linguistic context is certainly not “by far the most common” context. > > \ > > It’s not about language. It most commonly is about language. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-exactly-is-an-arab/610080/24 "2012-01-20T17:36:11Z")
I guess the only person you can safely say is an Arab now is Ahab. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-exactly-is-an-arab/610080/25 "2012-01-20T17:38:10Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > I guess the only person you can safely say is an Arab now is Ahab. Except he wasn’t an Arab, he was an AY-rab. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Surreal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@Surreal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Surreal)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-exactly-is-an-arab/610080/26 "2012-01-20T17:55:18Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > It most commonly is about language. Prove it. ---
**Author:** ![Lukeinva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lukeinva/32/17872_2.png) [@Lukeinva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lukeinva)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-exactly-is-an-arab/610080/27 "2012-01-20T17:56:39Z")
Persians and those from the Arabian Peninsula. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-exactly-is-an-arab/610080/28 "2012-01-20T18:18:18Z")
> [@Lukeinva](#): > > Persians and those from the Arabian Peninsula. What are you talking about? Persians are Persians. Farsi is an Indo-European language. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-exactly-is-an-arab/610080/29 "2012-01-20T18:20:53Z")
> [@Surreal](#): > > It’s absurd because the term “Arab” is very seldom used in any sort of linguistic context and the linguistic context is certainly not “by far the most common” context. > > The Arab oil embargo could not have been the Tagalog oil embargo. > > The Arab spring could not be the Esperanto spring. > > The Arab-Israeli conflict could not have been the Hindi-Israeli conflict. > > It’s not about language. No. We don’t say the _Arabic_ oil embargo. We don’t say the _Arabic_ Spring. We don’t talk about the _Arabic_-Israeli conflict. We’re talking about the most common way to establish what we mean when we say such and such person is an Arab. And the most common feature uniting Arabs is the Arabic language. Not genetics, not geography and not religion. I could quite wiki to support this, but instead I’ll just quote the very first line from Albert Hourani’s A History of the Arab Peoples: _The subject of this book is the history of the Arabic-speaking parts of the Islamic world…_. Like I said there are exceptions like the one I quoted above or to go in the reverse direction I’m sure you can find Arabic-speaking Berbers ( with Arabic as their first language ) that identify primarily as Berbers. Ethnic identity can be slippery at times. But accepting that there are exceptions, in general the most overall useful definition is that an Arab is someone for whom Arabic is their first language. ---
**Author:** ![Lukeinva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lukeinva/32/17872_2.png) [@Lukeinva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lukeinva)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-exactly-is-an-arab/610080/30 "2012-01-20T18:24:03Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > What are you talking about? Persians are Persians. Farsi is an Indo-European language. I’m sure you’ll correct me if I’m over generalizing but using [this map](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Map_of_the_Achaemenid_Empire.jpg) isn’t Persia all of Arabia? Which is generally where Arabs are from? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-exactly-is-an-arab/610080/31 "2012-01-20T18:26:30Z")
[QUOTE=Tamerlane;14687285Under a _linguistic_ definition, which is by far the most common way of defining what is an Arab. If Arabic is your native language you are an Arab. [/QUOTE] > [@suranyi](#): > > It’s not that complicated, really. Arabs are people who speak Arabic. > [@Francis\_Vaughan](#): > > We have been down this path before, and it simply doesn’t work. Just because you speak English doesn’t make you English. If you walk into a bar in Glasgow on a Friday night and suggest to the nearest English speaker that they are thus English, when you get out of hospital I’ll let you know where you went wrong. The average Egyptian would have much the same (if less extreme) reaction if you called them an Arab. > [@Surreal](#): > > That’s just absurd. > [@Surreal](#): > > It’s absurd because the term “Arab” is very seldom used in any sort of linguistic context and the linguistic context is certainly not “by far the most common” context. > > The Arab oil embargo could not have been the Tagalog oil embargo. > > The Arab spring could not be the Esperanto spring. > > The Arab-Israeli conflict could not have been the Hindi-Israeli conflict. > > It’s not about language. There is absolutely no reason that the word “Arab” and the word “English” or other linguistic terms should be expected to have parallel definitions. That’s not the way the English language works. “English” is not defined as someone who speaks English, but “Arab” is most commonly defined as someone who speaks Arabic as his or her native language or is descended from such people. They’re different words. They’re defined differently and that’s just the way it is. And no, there likely aren’t DNA studies, because an Arab identity is not dependent on genetics. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-exactly-is-an-arab/610080/32 "2012-01-20T18:35:31Z")
> [@Lukeinva](#): > > I’m sure you’ll correct me if I’m over generalizing but using [this map](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Map_of_the_Achaemenid_Empire.jpg) isn’t Persia all of Arabia? Which is generally where Arabs are from? Nope. Arabia is that chunk of land south of the Achaemenid Empire which is mostly not colored in because it was not part of it ;). Beyond that the Achaemenid state was a multi-ethnic one, ruled by a Persian elite, but which had adopted a non-Persian language ( Aramaic in this case ) from the dominant conquered culture of the Babylonians to serve as the administrative lingua franca ( which would remain the case until the Sassanians, ~seven hundred years later ). Persia in the sense of the homeland of the Persian people _at that time_ referred most accurately to the province of Persis on the gulf, also labeled on that map. This would change over millenia, but I’m afraid you can’t look at a snapshot from 500 B.C. to determine modern ethnicities. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-exactly-is-an-arab/610080/33 "2012-01-20T19:18:17Z")
> [@Lukeinva](#): > > I’m sure you’ll correct me if I’m over generalizing but using [this map](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Map_of_the_Achaemenid_Empire.jpg) isn’t Persia all of Arabia? Which is generally where Arabs are from? You might be mistaken because they put the title, “Persian Empire”, right smack in the middle of the Arabian Peninsula, but they are referring to the colored in area, which is outside the AP. That was just a convenient place to put the text, and shouldn’t be interpreted to mean it designates that area on the map. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-exactly-is-an-arab/610080/34 "2012-01-20T19:18:53Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > And no, there likely aren’t DNA studies, because an Arab identity is not dependent on genetics. I intended to suggest that various groups of Arab speakers (to follow Tamerlane’s definition) may have common “DNA markers”, whatever those are. 🙂 For example, people of European descent have Neanderthal DNA and people of African ancestry do not. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-exactly-is-an-arab/610080/35 "2012-01-20T19:29:30Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I intended to suggest that various groups of Arab speakers (to follow Tamerlane’s definition) may have common “DNA markers”, whatever those are. 🙂 For example, people of European descent have Neanderthal DNA and people of African ancestry do not. The linguistic and genetic groups would have some overlap, but there would be lots of mismatches. Most of North Africa is going to be different from the Levant. You might find Middle Eastern Arabs more closely related to Jews than to Algerians, for example. Generally speaking, people who live in close proximity will have similar genetics. And the farther away you go, the less similar it becomes. This assume you are looking at people who have not been subject to mass migrations, like what you’d find in the US. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-exactly-is-an-arab/610080/36 "2012-01-20T20:37:45Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Generally speaking, people who live in close proximity will have similar genetics. And the farther away you go, the less similar it becomes. I don’t know any Arabic, but I’d assume the language also becomes more diverse with distance from the Arabian Peninsula. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-exactly-is-an-arab/610080/37 "2012-01-20T21:39:20Z")
It depends on what you mean by “diverse.” Generally speaking, languages are more diverse, from a linguistic point of view, where they have existed for a longer time. So, at the point of its origin, it would be the most diverse. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-exactly-is-an-arab/610080/38 "2012-01-20T21:55:20Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > It depends on what you mean by “diverse.” Generally speaking, languages are more diverse, from a linguistic point of view, where they have existed for a longer time. So, at the point of its origin, it would be the most diverse. I suppose I meant the inclusion of other languages and local idioms, but as you say, it would be less diverse than a centrally located origin which would include many of those things from different regions. Not sure what word describes what I’m going for here. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-exactly-is-an-arab/610080/39 "2012-01-20T22:06:07Z")
An Arab is someone who self-identifies as being an Arab, or, not him/herself so self-identifying, belongs to a subcultural group which generally identifies as being Arab. For members’ reference, [Wikipedia 's article on Arab people](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_people). To me it seems accurate in broad terms, though I can see a lot of points at which a scholar like **Tamerlane** might cavil. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-exactly-is-an-arab/610080/40 "2012-01-20T22:12:12Z")
For the record, on the question of language as a pointer: prior to 2003 Iraq had about 170,000 Assyrians resident. This was their self-identification owing to being indigenous Nestorian Christians; the degree to which they were descended from the Ninevite-governed Assyrians who came down like the wolf on the fold is probably about on par with the typical modern Frenchman’s degree of descent from the Gauls. A cultural identity as “Arab” in modern MENA appears to me to be about equally slippery to pin down. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-exactly-is-an-arab/610080.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-exactly-is-an-arab/610080.md?page=3)