# Who figured out brass instruments, and how? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 16, 2012, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-figured-out-brass-instruments-and-how/628440 "2012-07-16T20:00:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-figured-out-brass-instruments-and-how/628440/21 "2012-07-17T03:28:43Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > Ever make a grass whistle? Or blow into a tube of any kind? Or blow across a narrow-mouth bottle? Children love making these sounds; my guess would be people have been enjoying making noise with their breath + an object since long into prehistory. Reed pipes are ancient and any shepherd can make one, given some reeds and a knife. If you have clay, you have the means to an ocarina. Given a goat or cow horn, wouldn’t you blow into it? C’mon, we’re just like that. > > These “I just can’t imagine why the first person to make (fill in the blank) would have thought to do it” questions always puzzle me. People fool around with stuff, constantly, that’s what we do. Then we build on those discoveries. None of those involve something as odd as buzzing your lips. Unlike other instruments, kids generally don’t even figure out how to play brass unless they are taught. Most think you’re just supposed to blow, and can’t figure out what they are doing wrong. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-figured-out-brass-instruments-and-how/628440/22 "2012-07-17T03:34:42Z")
I think the other interesting question is what got us from instruments like the serpent and the trombone (no valves, just ways to manipulate the length) to the common three or four valve instruments we know today. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-figured-out-brass-instruments-and-how/628440/23 "2012-07-17T05:28:45Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > None of those involve something as odd as buzzing your lips. Unlike other instruments, kids generally don’t even figure out how to play brass unless they are taught. Most think you’re just supposed to blow, and can’t figure out what they are doing wrong. I think you underestimate people’s ingenuity. My son was buzzing his lips for fun at age one. It just takes someone to happen to do it while putting a tube up to his lips to see the effect. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-figured-out-brass-instruments-and-how/628440/24 "2012-07-17T05:44:42Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > I think the other interesting question is what got us from instruments like the serpent and the trombone (no valves, just ways to manipulate the length) to the common three or four valve instruments we know today. Don’t know, but I’d guess it followed development of the valves needed for pipe organs. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-figured-out-brass-instruments-and-how/628440/25 "2012-07-18T17:33:00Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > Inventions, especially prehistoric ones, are like advantageous mutations. It only takes one moderately clever caveman to discover it once. And we’ve been sticking random crap in our mouths and blowing for a long time. Your momma has, to name but one. 😛 > [@asterion](#): > > I think the other interesting question is what got us from instruments like the serpent and the trombone (no valves, just ways to manipulate the length) to the common three or four valve instruments we know today. One step towards this was the French horn. It can already play a more nearly diatonic scale than the trumpet can, for assorted reasons that allow it to play the higher harmonics at the expense of brilliance. Since its bore is nearly cylindrical for much of its length, it was no great stretch to allow it to have a removable section that could be swapped out for one of different length - turning your horn in F into a horn in D, C or whatever, since a different-length pipe will play a different harmonic series. The player needed notice, though - an instruction in the score like “_Mutano in G_” meaning “Change to the G-crook”, and thirty bars rest. Once you had this, it was a small logical step, albeit a long technological one, to devise valve-gear that would let you do this on the fly, and have your spare crooks built in even when not in service. Brass instruments could be made with finger-holes like the woodwind had, but this turns out to cost more in tone than the increased flexibility really makes up for. So the key-bugle was never more than an interim measure… and for that matter the _natural trumpet_ has its adherents to this day. As to “middle ages”, the sackbut - forerunner of the slide trombone - didn’t come along until the Renaissance; valve brass came later. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-figured-out-brass-instruments-and-how/628440/26 "2012-07-18T18:49:36Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > The [shofar](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shofar) has been around for millennia. Shofar shogood. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-figured-out-brass-instruments-and-how/628440/27 "2012-07-18T19:05:30Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > And we’ve been sticking random crap in our mouths and blowing for a long time. Now, now. There’s no reason to bring the Kardashians into this. ---
**Author:** ![Drum\_God](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drum_god/32/44_2.png) [@Drum\_God](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drum_God)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-figured-out-brass-instruments-and-how/628440/28 "2012-07-19T00:06:31Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > I think you underestimate people’s ingenuity. My son was buzzing his lips for fun at age one. It just takes someone to happen to do it while putting a tube up to his lips to see the effect. My grandson has been buzzing his lips for a couple of weeks and he’s barely five months old. He’s clearly gifted! 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-figured-out-brass-instruments-and-how/628440.md?page=1)