Hmm, I’d certainly have no problem with a soldier wearing his uniform at the grocery store, I’d just figure he was on his way home. The idea that someone would choose to wear their uniform on days they’re not working strikes me as a bit odd. I don’t wear a suit to run my errands on Saturday.
I *do * think that the band mentioned in the OP should have been wearing dress uniforms. Just seems more appropriate to the occasion.
But I actually opened this thread thinking it was about *civilians * who constantly dress in surplus fatigues. Those people creep me the fuck out. To me, that’s akin to walking around all day wearing a sign that says “I’d rather be shooting people.”
As for why they were wearing what they were wearing, the Uniform of the Day is selected by various levels of command. Your base commander may say that UOD is one thing, but your unit commander may note that people performing a certain mission should still wear a different uniform. Pilots, for example, wear flight suits damn near everywhere, even in briefings where the intelligence support personnel around them are in business dress (suits). This is because (a) they may need to fly somewhere at a moment’s notice, and (b) the flight suit is very comfortable.
To answer the OP, if I were the commander of that particular band unit, I’d have them in their dress greens unless they were doing something else that day that required the camouflage uniform. The currently popular reason for camouflage is that we’re at war, and soldiers at home should wear the same thing as deployed soldiers for solidarity – but that completely defies the logic of why we have different mission-appropriate uniforms. In the desk-job units I served with, we’d switch to BDUs at the slightest excuse, because they were easier to care for than the blues, but if there was a promotion, you bet your ass we’d be there in blues and service dress.
BDUs / DCUs / fatigues are (IMHO) inappropriate for a formal ceremony held in the continental US, especially for hosts of the event (the band, the INS personnel, etc). I think the lieutenant or captain in charge dropped the ball, and I think his seasoned enlisted men dropped the ball in not asking him more leading questions.
Oh, and as for uniformed personnel wearing the uniform off-duty, Renee hit it on the head: most days, we can’t wait to change out of the uniform. However, if there’s a store on the way home and no milk in the fridge, well, sorry to offend your delicate sensibilities, but I’ll go shopping in fatigues before I’ll waste that much gas and time.
Well, I think for an important ceremony like a naturalization, it would have been nice if they’d worn their dress uniforms.
As for seeing people in uniform around town, mostly I just think how sharp they look. If they are in fatigues or whatever, I don’t really think twice about it. For me, there is no implied authority.
My dad was in the military and I grew up on various military bases, I definitely found this op interesting. I’ve never once had a negative thought about seeing a military person in uniform in public (whether in the nice blue shirt/dark pants combo, military flightsuit or fatigues). Just work clothes, similar to doctor scrubs - the idea the military is trying to intimidate or be aggressive or show dominance over a civilian is completely bizarre to me. Just folks in their work clothes, running errands.
Back when I was in the Army, one wore the fatigue uniform (plain olive drab in those days) on base. One was permitted to leave the base only in the khakis, dress uniforms, or civvies. Fatigues were a work uniform.
When I’m out and about, especially the closer to base I get, the more I see this.
The reason it makes me feel a bit awkward is it seems a tad too military state-esque. I’m not sure how to quantify it otherwise. I do know that when I went to Belize and saw guys walking along the side of the road with machine guns, it gave me sort of the same feeling. Maybe it’s a relic of growing up in a state where Castro gets shown in his uniform all the time.
We just don’t live in a country where military is omnipresent, even if it is.
That being said, damn near everyone looks good in military uniforms. How they pull that off is beyond me. My uniform at work is routinely mocked for being unflattering to everyone, without fail.
I guess this is an IMHO thread that needs some GQ input. I sure don’t have the answer, but I remember 20+ years ago when you’d see at the ariport soldiers in their class A’s and sailors (one of the better-looking ones being myself) in their blue jumpers (or whites, but even in summer the dress blues were acceptable when in transit).
Now I see soldiers in BDU’s at the airport. (Never any squids in dungarees, but maybe that’s so we the public won’t think they’re escapees from federal penitentiaries )
Is this because the regulations are cutting the guys & gals some slack and they don’t have to manage & maintain as complicated a wardrobe as before?
Or is it more post-9/11 “What part of ‘we’re at war’ don’t you understand?”
See, that’s part of it for me. I also remember that it wasn’t always this way, and now I’m being given a message on some level. I don’t like it.
I’m sure it’s easier for the guys and gals on the bases to go straight home without changing clothes, but while I sympathize I also consider it beside the point.
At some level, someone has decided to change previous policy and allow (or require?) service members to wear combat fatigues among the general population. Why?
The military and the army in particular has cut down on the amount of uniforms needed by each individual soldier. Used to be you had to have utility uniforms, khakis, greens, blues and sometimes whites. There were various forms and combinations. Now the “combat” uniform is normal for most situations. Dress uniforms are only for formal occasions (some exceptions, recruiters wear class As and Bs pretty often). This cuts down on the expense of buying uniforms for the troops and the government and I think it makes sense. There is talk that now they are going to do away with the class A green uniform and have the only dress uniform be dress blues. Base commanders have the authority to place limits on when and where you can wear the uniform when off duty. Outside of Ft Hood I saw plenty of uniforms at the mall after work. From what I hear if you are out in public around Ft Bragg in uniform it better be an emergency or you are in big trouble. That might have changed, I’m not sure.
And 60 years ago soldiers were rarely allowed to wear civilian clothes. They had to go everywhere in uniform. You couldn’t swing a dead cat without hitting someone in uniform. That changed. I don’t see an increase in the amount of people walking around in uniform. You recently move next to a military base?
As a soldier, it seems to me that these opinions are focused around how often you see military uniforms. Those that are surrounded by them think nothing of it. Those that rarely see it are offended by it.
For those that think it’s offensive, our (soldiers’) response is generally “Piss off.” Can you give me one good reason why you think any self-respecting soldier would care if one person (and it most likely is just you) is offended by the way they dress? We don’t just guard personal liberties, we enjoy them too. Wearing our uniform in a way that’s approved by our commander (like to the grocery store) is not disrespectful to anyone and anyone that IS offended shouldn’t be.
You’re offended that I think it’s OK to wear my uniform out in public? Well I’m offended that you think it isn’t. So quit offending my civil sensibilities.
Oh really? If you think the President is doing a piss-poor job of running the war in Iraq, are you allowed to come right out and tell me so, or give an interview on CNN with that message–i.e., exercise the right of free speech? Are you allowed to hold a mass demonstration with your acitve-duty buddies against the war-- i.e., the right of assembly? If accused of a crime, do you have the right to a grand jury and subsequent trial in a civilian court?
As far as I’ve ever been aware, when one joins an active-duty military force, certain personal liberties most certainly are curtailed. Am I wrong about that?
Or maybe the movie Red Tide was incorrect when Gene Hackman said, “We’re here to protect democracy, not to practice it”.
One of my great aunts (died before I was born) was in the Army Medical Corp in the 40s. According to my other great aunt she didn’t to get permission from the Army to wear a wedding dress to her own wedding! :eek:
All I think when I see someone in uniform is “they must be getting off/going to work” or if male “he’s hot”.
I’ll chime in for those in National Guard or Reserve. It often feels odd to wear your BDU’s in public. Since most Armories and Reserve Centers are not near major military installations you very definitely stand out and are stared at. I was either getting gas or picking up something from the store on my way home. All I’ve got to say is calm down they are just clothes they shouldn’t be seen as a political statement.
The only time I was put off by uniforms in public was September 15, 2001. Watching several dozen National Guardsmen in combat armor with M-16’s or 9mm’s augment security at the airport made me think more of Beirut than Cincinnati.
And to address this point, I wasn’t talking about just any uniform in my OP, but specifically combat uniforms. As I mentioned above, it’s gotten to the point that even at formal events like a citizenship oath ceremony, the Army band looks like it’s ready to go out and kick some Iraqi butt as soon as the conductor lays down his baton. Why not wear a dress uniform or other suitable alternative, like they did in my dad’s day?
As a former squid (and Seabee) I always was of the opinion that if you are going to wear a uniform in public it should be your dress uniform, but apparently that is a Navy thing moreso than the other services. Being seen in dungarees in public was absolutely not permitted.
I definitely think a band at a naturalization service should be in dress uniform.
BDU’s are not combat uniforms. They are everyday wear. Go on any Army base and you’ll see people doing everything from data entry to tracked vehicle maintenance in BDU’s. While I’ll agree that the band made a very poor wardrobe choice they were not in combat uniform. Combat Dress is helmets, LBE, armor and weapons and gear as specified by your OP Order. You see that a Safeway I’d say shop somewhere else.
The army only has 4 uniform choices: BDU’s the usual uniform of the day; Class A’s the ‘green suit’; Class B’s the grey dress shirt and pants from the ‘green suit’: and Dress Blue. Now very, very few enlisted own Dress Blues. Hell they cost more than a good suit and fit worse. Now the band should have worn Class A’s or Class B’s. The travel uniform is now BDU’s. Fly through Dallas, St. Louis, DC or LAX especially near the end of the month and the place will be full of BDU clad soldiers, airmen and Marines.
