# Who first put forth the idea that splitting atoms would make a powerful weapon **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 26, 2024, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-first-put-forth-the-idea-that-splitting-atoms-would-make-a-powerful-weapon/1003367 "2024-06-26T15:52:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-first-put-forth-the-idea-that-splitting-atoms-would-make-a-powerful-weapon/1003367/1 "2024-06-26T15:52:40Z")
And when? (warning: layperson ignorance to follow) I’ve been reading up on it a bit and I kind of get the gist of the progression leading up to it (in a layman kind of way) but who first thought, ‘I could use this to blow stuff up’. Wiki says, _In a 1924 article, Winston Churchill speculated about the possible military implications: "Might not a bomb no bigger than an orange be found to possess a secret power to destroy a whole block of buildings—nay to concentrate the force of a thousand tons of cordite and blast a township at a stroke?_ That’s pretty early on but surely he got the notion from someone. And was splitting the atom and an attempt to unleash the subsequent power or were they splitting the atom for ‘science’ and discovered the immense power? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-first-put-forth-the-idea-that-splitting-atoms-would-make-a-powerful-weapon/1003367/2 "2024-06-26T16:07:53Z")
It appears Churchill was not being prescient specifically about atomic bombs but just speculating about science coming up with a far greater explosive. _Public Domain:_ [Shall We All Commit Suicide? - International Churchill Society](https://winstonchurchill.org/publications/finest-hour/finest-hour-094/shall-we-all-commit-suicide/) > a topic on which there is in The World Crisis an entire chapter entitled “The Unfought Campaign”—Churchill then speculates about the future of explosives: Have we reached the end? Has Science turned its last page on them? May there not be methods of using explosive energy incomparably more intense than anything heretofore discovered? Might not a bomb no bigger than an orange be found to possess a secret power to destroy a whole block of buildings—nay to concentrate the force of a thousand tons of cordite and blast a township at a stroke? Could not explosives even of the existing type be guided automatically in flying machines by wireless or other rays, without a human pilot, in ceaseless procession on a hostile city, arsenal, camp, or dockyard? (8-9). However, H.G. Wells did write of a uranium-based hand grenade that “would continue to explode indefinitely” in his 1914 novel The World Set Free. So that could well have inspired Winston who was a reader of Wells. Apparently they were friendly and met up at various times to talk. Cite: [Was HG Wells the first to think of the atom bomb? - BBC News](https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-33365776#:~:text=One%20day%20you%20dream%20up,novel%20The%20World%20Set%20Free). ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-first-put-forth-the-idea-that-splitting-atoms-would-make-a-powerful-weapon/1003367/3 "2024-06-26T16:15:57Z")
I have a chapter on Atomic Power in our forthcoming book, so I researched this. While Wells seems to be the first predicting some kind of bomb, the comparison between the energy released by a single fission event and chemical combustion makes the possibility of a bomb pretty obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-first-put-forth-the-idea-that-splitting-atoms-would-make-a-powerful-weapon/1003367/4 "2024-06-26T16:16:54Z")
According to [this article](https://www.wired.com/2007/09/dayintech-0912/), the idea of an atomic chain reaction started in 1933 with Physicist Leo Szilard. You couldn’t have an atomic bomb without a chain reaction, so I don’t think it could have been earlier than that. He then patented it with the British admiralty in secret which suggests that he had figured out the fairly obvious military applications. So that would be my guess. ETA: Simulpost with Pasta. ---
**Author:** ![Pasta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@Pasta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pasta)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-first-put-forth-the-idea-that-splitting-atoms-would-make-a-powerful-weapon/1003367/5 "2024-06-26T16:19:19Z")
> [@Lucas\_Jackson](#): > > but who first thought, ‘I could use this to blow stuff up’. [Leo Szilard](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leo_Szilard) is credited with first putting the pieces together for the concept of a neutron-mediated nuclear chain reaction (1933). I would speculate that he already saw that that could maybe go boom even if he didn’t write about it immediately. It wasn’t known yet whether suitable isotopes actually existed, but once that was known, things were put into motion very quickly, leading to the [Einstein–Szilard letter](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein%E2%80%93Szilard_letter). ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-first-put-forth-the-idea-that-splitting-atoms-would-make-a-powerful-weapon/1003367/6 "2024-06-26T16:26:03Z")
Richard Rhodes amazing book “The Making of the Atomic Bomb” goes deep into the history of what made it possible. He talks about Leo Szilard and the numerous discoveries before and after that all built upon each other. Apart from the concept, I think the most crucial discrete step was James Chadwick’s discovery of the neutron. That’s what really allowed penetration of the atomic nucleus, and the actual bomb followed relatively soon thereafter. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-first-put-forth-the-idea-that-splitting-atoms-would-make-a-powerful-weapon/1003367/7 "2024-06-26T16:27:22Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I have a chapter on Atomic Power in our forthcoming book, so I researched this. What book is this? ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-first-put-forth-the-idea-that-splitting-atoms-would-make-a-powerful-weapon/1003367/8 "2024-06-26T16:29:08Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > However, H.G. Wells did write of a uranium-based hand grenade that “would continue to explode indefinitely” in his 1914 novel The World Set Free. Given earlier comments that the chain reaction wasn’t recognized until 1933, I wonder what made Wells think of uranium as powerful in general, and specifically as having some special explosive behavior. What would Wells have known about uranium in 1914? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-first-put-forth-the-idea-that-splitting-atoms-would-make-a-powerful-weapon/1003367/9 "2024-06-26T16:51:46Z")
Becquerel, in 1896, discovered that certain materials (including uranium) released energy continually, without any apparent depletion. That suggests that there’s some way in which uranium is storing immense amounts of energy, and from there it’s a short step to concluding that, if all of that energy could be released at once, it could be incredibly destructive. You don’t need to know how the energy is stored, or how to trigger it to release suddenly, to at least see the potential. ---
**Author:** ![Pasta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@Pasta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pasta)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-first-put-forth-the-idea-that-splitting-atoms-would-make-a-powerful-weapon/1003367/10 "2024-06-26T17:07:40Z")
I decided to take a look at the actual H.G. Wells text from 1914. I would take the stance that he didn’t quite predict the atomic _bomb_, but he did write about a fictional atomic _weapon_. From my brief skimming of the story, the characters… - …discuss how there is so much energy waiting to be released (from uranium and others) - …lament that nature has allowed that energy to only be released very slowly - …speculate about what could be if we could hasten the release - …and then form “Carolinum” weapons that don’t explode but rather just exude lots of energy over extended periods. To wit: > Those that were thrown from aeroplanes fell in this state, they reached the ground still mainly solid, and, melting soil and rock in their progress, bored into the earth. There, as more and more of the Carolinum became active, the bomb spread itself out into a monstrous cavern of fiery energy at the base of what became very speedily a miniature active volcano. The Carolinum, unable to disperse, freely drove into and mixed up with a boiling confusion of molten soil and superheated steam, and so remained spinning furiously and maintaining an eruption that lasted for years or months or weeks according to the size of the bomb employed and the chances of its dispersal. So, basically mega-radioactive hot balls rather than bombs, and not from uranium per se but from a new substance. I do see that Szilard, in his memoire, acknowledged influence from Wells’ take on the implications of a super-weapon. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-first-put-forth-the-idea-that-splitting-atoms-would-make-a-powerful-weapon/1003367/11 "2024-06-26T19:31:11Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > He then patented it with the British admiralty in secret > [@Pasta](#): > > It wasn’t known yet whether suitable isotopes actually existed, but once that was known, things were put into motion very quickly, leading to the [Einstein–Szilard letter](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein%E2%80%93Szilard_letter). Interesting. So in the intervening 5 or 6 years somehow the Germans got ahold of the technology, or did a German scientist come up with it independently? ---
**Author:** ![YellowDog51](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a5b964/32.png) [@YellowDog51](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YellowDog51)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-first-put-forth-the-idea-that-splitting-atoms-would-make-a-powerful-weapon/1003367/12 "2024-06-26T20:12:11Z")
Just wanted to second the recommendation of Richard Rhodes’ book. He manages to explain the science such that even I could at least get the gist of it. He also covers the Manhattan Project, development of the B-29, and Curtis LeMay and the fire-bombing of Tokyo. His book on Reagin and Gorbachev at Rykyavik is also excellent. What an opportunity lost. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-first-put-forth-the-idea-that-splitting-atoms-would-make-a-powerful-weapon/1003367/13 "2024-06-26T21:57:12Z")
From the Wikipedia article on nuclear fission: “Nuclear fission was discovered on 19 December 1938 in Berlin by German chemists Otto Hahn and Fritz Strassmann. Physicists Lise Meitner and her nephew Otto Robert Frisch explained it theoretically in January 1939. Frisch named the process “fission” by analogy with biological fission of living cells. In their second publication on nuclear fission in February 1939, Hahn and Strassmann predicted the existence and liberation of additional neutrons during the fission process, opening up the possibility of a nuclear chain reaction.” From Hahn’s page: In 1938, Hahn, Meitner and Fritz Strassmann discovered nuclear fission, for which Hahn alone, was awarded the 1944 Nobel Prize for Chemistry. " Many suspect that if Strassmann was included then Meitner would have to have been as well which the Nobel people were loathe to do. All were either German or Austrian working in the 1930s mainly in German institutes and publishing in German journals. The Jewish ones fled German in the late 30s but continued to work with their colleagues in Germany. It was soon after this that a voluntary hiatus on publishing research in this came about. But keep in mind that the earliest publications were not only not hidden from the Germans, they were done by Germans/Austrians. Frisch coined the term “nuclear fission” and came up with first design of an atomic bomb pre- Manhattan Project (which he later became a member of). " ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-first-put-forth-the-idea-that-splitting-atoms-would-make-a-powerful-weapon/1003367/14 "2024-06-26T22:08:51Z")
Delving deep into the online Science Fiction Encyclopedia, I tracked links until I came across the entry for [Robert Cromie](https://sf-encyclopedia.com/entry/cromie_robert). His third proto-sf novel, _The Crack of Doom_ intuited that a weapon could be formed from that energy. > Cromie is best known for his third sf novel, The Crack of Doom (1895), which is set in the year 2000; the protagonist runs across a politically radical villain (the secret society he controls is vitiated by Feminism and other unacceptable beliefs) who dominates his attractive sister through Telepathy and has also developed a device to unlock the Nuclear Energy contained in matter. He plans to use his formula to destroy the world through a Manichaean conviction that matter is an occlusive evil whose effect on primal reality is to torture it. There is no doubt of Cromie’s intention: as he explains, the first use of atomic energy had, thousands of years earlier, destroyed the fifth planet and created the Asteroids; though hazily described; his use here of a nuclear device to end civilization marks the first occurrence of a theme which would dominate the next century (see End of the World). In a heavily plotted denouement, the protagonist alters the formula, so that only a South Pacific Island is evaporated, and all is saved. The SFE is not infallible, especially when they say something was a “first” because obscure earlier works keep popping up, but this appears to be a solid example of the first expression of weaponized [nuclear energy](https://sf-encyclopedia.com/entry/nuclear_energy) (which has its own entry). ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-first-put-forth-the-idea-that-splitting-atoms-would-make-a-powerful-weapon/1003367/15 "2024-06-26T22:16:57Z")
I concur with @ftg and his mention of [Lise Meitner](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lise_Meitner) and [Otto Hahn](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Hahn). Lise Meitner deserves much more credit than was awarded to her in her lifetime. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-first-put-forth-the-idea-that-splitting-atoms-would-make-a-powerful-weapon/1003367/16 "2024-06-26T22:37:26Z")
> [@](#): > > When all were settled, the President explained the purpose of the meeting. The utilization of subatomic energy had indeed been achieved, and they were to be given a demonstration. > > The young Mongol stood up, and produced from a case an instrument rather like the old-fashioned rifle. Displaying this object, he spoke as follows, with that quaintly stilted formality which had once been characteristic of all educated Chinese: “Before describing the details of my rather delicate process, I will illustrate its importance by showing what can be done with the finished product. Not only can I initiate the annihilation of matter, but also I can do so at a distance and in a precise direction. Moreover, I can inhibit the process. As a means of destruction, my instrument is perfect. As a source of power for the constructive work of mankind, it has unlimited potentiality. Gentlemen, this is a great moment in the history of Man. I am about to render into the hands of organized intelligence the means to stop for ever man’s internecine brawls. Henceforth this great Society, of which you are the _elite_, will beneficently rule the planet. With this little instrument you will stop the ridiculous war; and with another, which I shall soon perfect, you will dispense unlimited industrial power wherever you consider it needed. Gentlemen, with the aid of this handy instrument which I have the honour to demonstrate, you are able to become absolute masters of this planet.” > > … > > The Mongol continued. Turning towards Lundy, he said, “That island is no longer inhabited, and as it is something of a danger to shipping, I will remove it.” So saying he aimed his instrument at the distant cliff, but continued speaking. “This trigger will stimulate the ultimate positive and negative charges which constitute the atoms at a certain point on the rock face to annihilate each other. These stimulated atoms will infect their neighbours, and so on indefinitely. This second trigger, however, will stop the actual annihilation. Were I to refrain from using it, the process would indeed continue indefinitely, perhaps until the whole of the planet had disintegrated.” > > There was an anxious movement among the spectators, but the young man took careful aim, and pressed the two triggers in quick succession. No sound from the instrument. No visible effect upon the smiling face of the island. Laughter began to gurgle from the Englishman, but ceased. For a dazzling point of light appeared on the remote cliff. It increased in size and brilliance, till all eyes were blinded in the effort to continue watching. It lit up the under parts of the clouds and blotted out the sun-cast shadows of gorse bushes beside the spectators. The whole end of the island facing the mainland was now an intolerable scorching sun. Presently, however, its fury was veiled in clouds of steam from the boiling sea. Then suddenly the whole island, three miles of solid granite, leaped asunder; so that a covey of great rocks soared heavenward, and beneath them swelled more slowly a gigantic mushroom of steam and debris. Then the sound arrived. All hands were clapped to ears, while eyes still strained to watch the bay, pocked white with the hail of rocks. Meanwhile a great wall of sea advanced from the centre of turmoil. This was seen to engulf a coasting vessel, and pass on toward Bideford and Barnstaple. - Olaf Stapeldon, _Last and First Men_, 1930 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-first-put-forth-the-idea-that-splitting-atoms-would-make-a-powerful-weapon/1003367/17 "2024-06-26T22:38:03Z")
OK, now that is weird, given that “the nuclear energy contained in matter” wasn’t even discovered until 1896. Either Cromie was a time traveler, or he was extremely lucky in his guesses, or the novel is mis-dated. I’m guessing the third: Perhaps the novel was published serially over the course of many years, and 1895 was only when it started, but the nature of the weapon wasn’t revealed until later? ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-first-put-forth-the-idea-that-splitting-atoms-would-make-a-powerful-weapon/1003367/18 "2024-06-26T22:44:09Z")
And the name ‘nucleus’ to refer to the central part of the atom wasn’t coined until 1912 ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-first-put-forth-the-idea-that-splitting-atoms-would-make-a-powerful-weapon/1003367/19 "2024-06-26T22:52:03Z")
I believe the quoted text is the author of the SFE talking about the novel, not text from the novel itself. The actual writer probably talked about “n-rays” or some other made-up term that was all the rage for sci-fi writers around the turn of the century. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-first-put-forth-the-idea-that-splitting-atoms-would-make-a-powerful-weapon/1003367/20 "2024-06-26T22:58:41Z")
> [@Llama\_Llogophile](#): > > Richard Rhodes amazing book “The Making of the Atomic Bomb” goes deep into the history of what made it possible. > [@YellowDog51](#): > > Just wanted to second the recommendation of Richard Rhodes’ book. I found a place where I could read the first 11 pages online. Very well written. I look forward to the read. > [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > Lise Meitner deserves much more credit than was awarded to her in her lifetime. I read her Wiki entry. Fascinating. The Nuremberg Laws were disgustingly ugly. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-first-put-forth-the-idea-that-splitting-atoms-would-make-a-powerful-weapon/1003367.md?page=2)