# Who gets more of your sympathy -- Jeff Dahmer or Martha Stewart? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 13, 2004, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-gets-more-of-your-sympathy-jeff-dahmer-or-martha-stewart/268911 "2004-10-13T00:21:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-gets-more-of-your-sympathy-jeff-dahmer-or-martha-stewart/268911/41 "2004-10-13T21:23:16Z")
> [@LMM](#): > > Well, right. Not in my opinion, but in that of the quoted poster, I guess. And it’s not just the court’s opinion that Dahmer should have received a life sentence. It’s the will of the people of the state in which he committed his crimes, as expressed and codified by their state legislature and implemented by the courts of that state. Thay would be my state, Wisconsin, which for 150 years or so has never seen fit to enact a death penalty. I like that about this place. ---
**Author:** ![JohnBckWLD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JohnBckWLD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnBckWLD)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-gets-more-of-your-sympathy-jeff-dahmer-or-martha-stewart/268911/42 "2004-10-13T21:27:06Z")
> [@LMM](#): > > I don’t really like this line of thinking. We shouldn’t think it’s “[getting] the justice he deserved” when a killer is murdered in prison. I apologize for posting my initial, emotional, GD-sounding reply in an IMHO poll thread. My sympathies always seem fall on the side of the victim’s family (or in this case; 17 families). ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-gets-more-of-your-sympathy-jeff-dahmer-or-martha-stewart/268911/43 "2004-10-14T09:28:02Z")
> [@JohnBckWLD](#): > > 1. He murdered (Former Family Memeber) Bobby Beausoleil Niptick: Bobby Beausoleil is still alive (albeit incarcerated for life). In fact he has a [web site](http://www.beausoleil.net) . ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-gets-more-of-your-sympathy-jeff-dahmer-or-martha-stewart/268911/44 "2004-10-14T10:01:23Z")
> [@Boyo Jim](#): > > Thay would be my state, Wisconsin, which for 150 years or so has never seen fit to enact a death penalty. I like that about this place. No death penalty and good cheese, sounds delightful. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-gets-more-of-your-sympathy-jeff-dahmer-or-martha-stewart/268911/45 "2004-10-14T10:16:42Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Well, Martha and Jeffrey are alike in some ways. For example, both blew a few a dinners when they were first getting started. Wow… those Dahmer jokes get FUNNIER AND FUNNIER each time I hear them. I lived in Milwaukee at the time… I lived less than a half mile away. There wasn’t anything funny about it… _ever_. Plenty of clueless people and others who were working out their issues were making Dahmer jokes. They weren’t funny then. Your gallows humor is disgusting. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-gets-more-of-your-sympathy-jeff-dahmer-or-martha-stewart/268911/46 "2004-10-14T12:31:50Z")
Stewart committed a crime and tried not to get caught. Dahmer committed many, many crimes over and over and tried not to get caught. The first time the police came to his door with a naked 14 year old boy, he claimed it was a “lover’s spat.” Dahmer groupies claim he did good by “destroying gay trash.” I’d rather met up with Martha than with Jeffrey. But that’s just me. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-gets-more-of-your-sympathy-jeff-dahmer-or-martha-stewart/268911/47 "2004-10-14T12:47:24Z")
> [@Wile E](#): > > Now how many of us would have lured young men into our homes then killed and eaten them? Hmm? Oh sure - I try the Atkins diet, make one or two little _faux pas_, and I never hear the end of it. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-gets-more-of-your-sympathy-jeff-dahmer-or-martha-stewart/268911/48 "2004-10-14T13:01:55Z")
> [@Mockingbird](#): > > Wow… those Dahmer jokes get FUNNIER AND FUNNIER each time I hear them. > > I lived in Milwaukee at the time… I lived less than a half mile away. There wasn’t anything funny about it… _ever_. > > Plenty of clueless people and others who were working out their issues were making Dahmer jokes. > > They weren’t funny then. Your gallows humor is disgusting. Who gives a crap if you lived in Milwaukee? Pull the stick out of your butt. That was the funniest joke I’ve read in a while. Anyway, I have some sympathy for Martha because I really think that the forcefulness of the prosecution had more to do with who she was than what she did. That is, she was treated, in a sense, unfairly by the justice system. I have symphathy for Dahmer because he shouldn’t have been killed in jail like that. I also find it hard to believe that a guy just turns out to do such evil as him without someone having done such evil TO him. So, if that’s true, I have some sympathy for him as a person. Less, obviously, if he was just a sicko who enjoyed torturing people. I don’t know his story. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-gets-more-of-your-sympathy-jeff-dahmer-or-martha-stewart/268911/49 "2004-10-14T14:00:45Z")
> [@Trunk](#): > > Less, obviously, if he was just a sicko who enjoyed torturing people. I’m sure all the body parts lying around the house were from humane kills. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ninetypercent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9de0a6/32.png) [@ninetypercent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ninetypercent)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-gets-more-of-your-sympathy-jeff-dahmer-or-martha-stewart/268911/50 "2004-10-14T14:18:05Z")
Also neither. the life and times of Mr. Dahmer : [http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial\_killers/notorious/dahmer/naked1.html](http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/notorious/dahmer/naked1.html) While in jail, Dahmer was beaten to death by a schizophrenia man who was acting on the command of God. This was right after he became a born-again Christian. We are free of his presence and Satan lost the battle for his soul. The Lord works in mysterious ways… crimelibrary is an excellent site, by the way. Read the one on Albert Fish. Truly disturbing. ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-gets-more-of-your-sympathy-jeff-dahmer-or-martha-stewart/268911/51 "2004-10-14T14:29:05Z")
> [@ninetypercent](#): > > crimelibrary is an excellent site, by the way. Read the one on Albert Fish. Truly disturbing. Yeah. Albert Fish has never gotten the proper respect he deserves. He should definitely be in the upper echelon with Ted Bundy, Dahmer and John Wayne Gacy. He needs a movie or a better PR firm. ---
**Author:** ![Agrippina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8797f3/32.png) [@Agrippina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agrippina)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-gets-more-of-your-sympathy-jeff-dahmer-or-martha-stewart/268911/52 "2004-10-14T14:57:23Z")
[HH Holmes](http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/history/holmes/index_1.html) was pretty disturbing. A man who built a “hotel of horrors” during the 1893 Chicago World’s Fair. Lured people into this hotel and killed them in creative ways. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-gets-more-of-your-sympathy-jeff-dahmer-or-martha-stewart/268911/53 "2004-10-14T15:08:54Z")
> [@ninetypercent](#): > > We are free of his presence and Satan lost the battle for his soul. The Lord works in mysterious ways… I’m sure that comforts the victims families. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-gets-more-of-your-sympathy-jeff-dahmer-or-martha-stewart/268911/54 "2004-10-14T15:47:22Z")
> [@Agrippina](#): > > [HH Holmes](http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/history/holmes/index_1.html) was pretty disturbing. A man who built a “hotel of horrors” during the 1893 Chicago World’s Fair. Lured people into this hotel and killed them in creative ways. “Soon to be a major motion picture” starring Leonardo DiCaprio, incidentally. (It began as a movie version of the recent bestseller _Devil in the White City_ but has been whittled down to just Holmes.) ---
**Author:** ![JohnBckWLD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JohnBckWLD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnBckWLD)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-gets-more-of-your-sympathy-jeff-dahmer-or-martha-stewart/268911/55 "2004-10-14T18:27:04Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Niptick: Bobby Beausoleil is still alive (albeit incarcerated for life). In fact he has a > [web site](http://www.beausoleil.net) . Sorry, brain fart. With all these corpses, I get em confused. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-gets-more-of-your-sympathy-jeff-dahmer-or-martha-stewart/268911/56 "2004-10-15T05:18:43Z")
Tony Hughes, the young deaf-mute man whose skull was found in Dahmer’s apartment, was a friend of a friend. Another friend was the only journalist to enter Dahmer’s apartment on the night of his arrest before the police began tearing it apart. An acquaintance found one of Dahmer’s “practice” victims. And a high school classmate’s father was Dahmer’s defense attorney. Dahmer had every reason during the insanity portion of his trial to come up with mitigating causes for his mental abberations. He went into sickening detail, for his psychiatrist and attorney, about his methods, and the sexual thrills he would get with the corpses. But he made no claim about being abused in any way as a child. ---
**Author:** ![Ozchick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/f6c823/32.png) [@Ozchick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ozchick)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-gets-more-of-your-sympathy-jeff-dahmer-or-martha-stewart/268911/57 "2004-10-15T07:02:45Z")
> [@missbunny](#): > > Why do you think he was nuts and driven by compulsions? Because he did things that were really really gross? That would make pretty much all mutilating murderers driven by compulsions. I for one believe some people murder other people because _they like doing it._ Not because they’re crazy. > > . I couldn’t agree more. It is a common misconception, even among many health care professionals, that just because someone committed creimes no mentally healthy person would commit, that therefore they are not guilty of the crimes by reason of insanity. No one denies Dahmer was sick, but the court at the time found that Dahmer was a) sane enough to know what he was doing was wrong; and b) _not_ driven by compulsions he couldn’t withstand. If (a) or (b) had been the case, he would have been sent to a mental hospital, not jail. Having said that, Dahmer’s case is not straightforward. Even among the FBI’s serial crime unit, behavioural profiling experts debate Dahmer’s sanity…mostly along the “compulsions"line.”\* However, a true psychotic, driven by compulsions they couldn’t control, would actually be very unlikely to become a serial killer, simply because they would not be able to get very far without being caught. Their compulsions would HAVE to be acted on any time, any place they arose…ie even in broad daylight, in front of witnesses. End of criminal career. To quote the former head of FBI’s behavioural science unit: > [@](#): > > Keep in mind that no serial killer in my experience has ever felt so compelled to kill that he did so in the presence of a uniformed police officer. \*\* Bottom line, if they only do it when no one’s looking, they are not under the control of “compulsions”. \*“Mindhunter”, by John Douglas, p256 \*\* ditto, p348 ---
**Author:** ![Ozchick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/f6c823/32.png) [@Ozchick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ozchick)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-gets-more-of-your-sympathy-jeff-dahmer-or-martha-stewart/268911/58 "2004-10-15T07:19:11Z")
> [@JohnBckWLD](#): > > Where did you hear the far-out hijack that Manson “never even killed anyone?” The only place i could think of would be at a Free Mumia charity benefit concert. > > I’ll concede the fact Leslie Van Houten probably didn’t ‘kill anyone’ (she’s alleged to have only stabbed Rosemary LaBianca post-mortem). As far as Manson goes: > > 1. On the 1st night of his Helter Skelter race war scheme, he directed the five murderers at the Tate house. > 2. He broke into the house of & tied up the aforementioned Rosemary and her husband Leno LaBianca prior to sending in his human wolves to shred them apart. > 3. He killed and buried Spahn ranch hand Donald Shorty Shea. > 4. He murdered (Former Family Memeber) Bobby Beausoleil > 5. He was possibly involved in the murder of his attorney > 6. Bugliosi goes on to list a whole host of others who definitely weren’t beamed up aboard the mothership. > > As far as where I’d place my sympathies - definitely more with proverbially jaywalking Martha than a perverted cannibal who finally got the justice he deserved in the big house. Not meaning to nitpick, but are you sure of the above facts? I always thought that Manson never actually killed anybody with his own hands, only (not that it makes a difference morally), but by exerting control over the inadequate nobodies who proclaimed him as their god and leader. In the case of Leno and Rosemary LaBianca, I thought Manson only came to their house after his “Family members” had killed and mutilated them. (Again - like that makes a moral difference - the guy was still the instigator. No _way_ should he ever get parole.) ---
**Author:** ![TitoBenito](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2acd7d/32.png) [@TitoBenito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TitoBenito)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-gets-more-of-your-sympathy-jeff-dahmer-or-martha-stewart/268911/59 "2004-10-15T07:19:32Z")
I can sympathize with greedy people. I can be greedy so I understand it. Sometimes people do bad things for money, but that doesnt mean they are horrible people. I don’t have any sympathy for the desire to mutalate and murder someone for a sexual high. In fact I feel a thousand time more sympathy for mosquitos I swat then I have for humans with such desires. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-gets-more-of-your-sympathy-jeff-dahmer-or-martha-stewart/268911/60 "2004-10-15T07:51:55Z")
> [@Trunk](#): > > Who gives a crap if you lived in Milwaukee? Pull the stick out of your butt. That was the funniest joke I’ve read in a while. I guess that’s the difference between having a soul or not. I’m so glad you can find amusement in the grisly death of so many. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-gets-more-of-your-sympathy-jeff-dahmer-or-martha-stewart/268911.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-gets-more-of-your-sympathy-jeff-dahmer-or-martha-stewart/268911.md?page=4)