# Who has been worst - Bush or Obama? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 30, 2014, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979 "2014-09-30T16:54:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/41 "2014-10-01T16:01:56Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > You kids. > > Johnson and Nixon were both President in my lifetime. I don’t care if you’re old enough to remember James Buchanan, Bush was the worst of the lot. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/42 "2014-10-01T16:07:10Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > Then why the rabid opposition to it if it was ‘not a particularly notable step.’? I think it was fear of a slippery slope, that ACA might lead later on to things like single payer, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/43 "2014-10-01T16:07:49Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > Isn’t it great that we’re having this conversation? Gosh yes - I’m on tenterhooks to see which way it goes. When this thread plays out, we could kick around another fresh topic, like whether or not the invasion of Iraq was a good idea. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/44 "2014-10-01T16:13:10Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > Then why the rabid opposition to it if it was ‘not a particularly notable step.’? Compared to Medicare, Medicaid, SCHIP, etc. Liberals are trying to have it both ways on ACA: laud it as if it’s universal health care, while denying it is because they really want single payer. However, ranking ACA among Medicare, Medicaid, and SCHIP, it would finish a distant 3rd in number of people covered. Medicare and Medicaid before the recent expansion under ACA cover more. For those who think it will lead to single payer, you might want to read the recent news from Switzerland. [http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/09/29/switzerland-rejects-single-payer-will-keep-its-own-version-of-obamacare/](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/09/29/switzerland-rejects-single-payer-will-keep-its-own-version-of-obamacare/) I may not like ACA, but it is what we’ve got, and it’s what we’ll always have. My dreams of repeal may be shattered, but so are the dreams of single payer advocates. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/45 "2014-10-01T16:16:27Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I may not like ACA, but it is what we’ve got, and it’s what we’ll always have. My dreams of repeal may be shattered, but so are the dreams of single payer advocates. Good news, everyone – we’re going to have single payer someday! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/46 "2014-10-01T16:21:40Z")
Obama’s problems are the policies of Bush that he continued and expanded. Bush tanked the economy so badly that it threatened a national and worldwide depression. Obama acted quickly and decisively to prevent the very worst of that and we only had a bad and long lasting recession because he did not get enough stimulus or seek enough. It was a truly bad time for millions upon million of people. The middle class, which votes, lost millions of homes. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/47 "2014-10-01T16:21:40Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > It depends upon whom you ask. For democrats Bush can do no right and Obama no wrong. Where in the world do you, and other Republicans, get this from? I have never met, spoken to, or corresponded with in writing any Democrat who believes Obama can do no wrong. In fact, most Democrats have criticisms of many of Obama’s actions, or inactions. What I see is that while most of Democrats’ criticisms of Obama are legitimate, too many of Republicans’ criticisms are fabrications and series’ of _post hoc ergo propter hoc_ claims. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/48 "2014-10-01T16:23:50Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I think his biggest shortcoming is believing that he could put an end to partisan politics. Was that \*his \*belief, or merely that of some of the more extreme worshippers he attracted, including on this board? We were told many things about how well he was able to get the Republicans in the Illinois legislature to do his bidding and would do it in DC too, but I don’t remember any of that from _him_. I agree with the rest, though. Obama remains startlingly naïve about the nature of his opposition, while a president with more backbone could have been far more effective. We discussed all of that, extensively, in the 2008 primaries, as you may recall. But the biggest comparison is that Bush destroyed the economy and Obama restored it, and Bush started an evil and ruinous war and Obama pulled us out of it. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > _(to **adaher** )_ I’ve enjoyed your “evolution” from decrying the ACA as disastrous, predicting it will destroy itself, complaining about the rollout, finally bitterly accepting that it probably won’t go away, to the understanding that it’s actually pretty successful. You still try and subtly criticize it as above, of course, but in another year or two you’ll come around to recognizing that it is, as Joe Biden said, a “big fucking deal”. More than that, as a party cheerleader he’ll be crowing about how it was a Republican idea all along and it wouldn’t have been implemented nationally without Romney first showing the way. That will even be pretty much true as far as it goes. He’ll then be stuck explaining why there are so many Fuck Obama states still refusing to expand Medicaid because, well, Fuck Obama. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/49 "2014-10-01T16:33:35Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Liberals are trying to have it both ways on ACA: laud it as if it’s universal health care, while denying it is because they really want single payer. You’ve previously acknowledged that it IS universal health care by US standards. :dubious: What changed? You also obviously still can’t understand why anyone who welcomes ACA as a huge advance could think that an even huger advance would be even better. Puzzling, that, but consistent of you. > [@](#): > > I may not like ACA, but it is what we’ve got, and it’s what we’ll always have. My dreams of repeal may be shattered Are you now acknowledging that the “replace” part always has been and still is a simple lie by your party’s leadership? One intended to give an excuse to people to oppose Obamacare on the grounds that they had something better right behind it? Can you tell us now that that was the story all along, and you actually bought it? That you now understand you were lied to all along, and that you swallowed it whole? Yeah, I didn’t think so. > [@](#): > > but so are the dreams of single payer advocates. It won’t happen immediately, certainly - the truth of Pelosi’s observation that people who’ve been conditioned to oppose it, by the Republican lie campaign, will come to understand what it really is through personal experience and thereby come to support it will take a few years to reveal itself. It will have to become as ingrained and cherished as Social Security and Medicare before the next stage becomes politically possible - which reminds me, how well has opposing those two programs worked for you guys lately? How well have your privatization/voucher schemes been accepted, for instance? ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/50 "2014-10-01T16:40:50Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I may not like ACA, but it is what we’ve got, and it’s what we’ll always have. My dreams of repeal may be shattered, but so are the dreams of single payer advocates. Just how long is ‘always’ to your way of thinking? The US won’t be able to buck the rest of the civilized world forever, no matter how fervently the trogs desire it, globalization trending as it is. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/51 "2014-10-01T18:19:43Z")
I like the OP’s use of ‘worst’ and I hope it was intentional. One of these two guys was the **Worst. President. Ever**. We get to decide which one. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/52 "2014-10-01T20:26:41Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > You kids. > > Johnson and Nixon were both President in my lifetime. I go back to Truman, and Bush is far worse than any of them. While Johnson had Vietnam, he also had the Civil Rights Act. Nixon had Watergate, but he also had the opening of China and the EPA. Bush had what exactly? His immigration reform proposal was not bad, but he couldn’t get his party to support it. And he was smart enough to get out if the way to let those who knew what they were doing address the financial crisis. Even Bush knows this - notice how where Clinton is running around on talk shows Bush is staying at home painting selfies. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/53 "2014-10-01T20:30:46Z")
And for you greedy people, like me. Dow when Bush took office on Jan. 20, 2001: 10587. Dow when Bush left office: 7949 Dow today: 17,000 or so. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/54 "2014-10-01T20:31:20Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I go back to Truman. Were \*you \*the baby he was kissing in that picture? ---
**Author:** ![AtomicDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@AtomicDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AtomicDog)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/55 "2014-10-01T21:11:46Z")
One of these presidents nearly caused The Great Depression II. The other president prevented The Great Depression II. Who the hell do you think deserves to be called the worst? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/56 "2014-10-01T21:20:36Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > Were \*you \*the baby he was kissing in that picture? Could have been. I was a year and 3 months old when he left office. But no, even though my parents were Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/57 "2014-10-01T22:29:36Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Agreed. There is nothing Obama has done that comes even close to Bush starting the Iraq war. Nothing. That was the worst foreign policy decision since the Vietnam War. Hey now, at least y’all got \*something \*out of the war in Iraq (namely, private oil exploitation contracts and an outlet for obsolete war machines). That’s better than Vietnam right there ! ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/58 "2014-10-01T22:59:31Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Gosh yes - I’m on tenterhooks to see which way it goes. > > When this thread plays out, we could kick around another fresh topic, like whether or not the invasion of Iraq was a good idea. > > Regards, > Shodan Actually, I’m finding it surprising at some of the self-described conservatives in this thread who are speaking critically of Bush. ---
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/59 "2014-10-02T09:04:35Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I go back to Truman, and Bush is far worse than any of them. While Johnson had Vietnam, he also had the Civil Rights Act. > Nixon had Watergate, but he also had the opening of China and the EPA. In my opinion, the Vietnam war was worse than the Iraq war by at least an order af magnitude. The Vietnam war makes Matthew White’s list of the 100 worst atrocities of all time, at number 24 with 4.2 million deaths. The Iraq war didn’t make the list at all. Given this, I think there is no redemption for any presidents involved in this war, they are going to be the worst no matter what they else they did. So my list of worst since LBJ would perhaps go: 1. Nixon 2. LBJ 3. W 4. Obama . . Best: Carter ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/60 "2014-10-02T11:09:02Z")
> [@F.U.Shakespeare](#): > > Actually, I’m finding it surprising at some of the self-described conservatives in this thread who are speaking critically of Bush. Well, you tell me- from a CONSERVATIVE standpoint, what did W. do that should please me? The only positive legacy he left (from my standpoint) was two good Supreme Court appointments. But as I noted earlier, when openings arose, his first instinct was not to appoint a conservative! His first instinct (as always) was to appoint a PAL, Harriet Miers. Look at his Cabinet- do you see a lot of conservatives, or do you see a lot of holdovers from his Dad’s administration? Apart from John Ashcroft, Bush never chose any conservatives for the Cabinet. And as soon as Ashcroft left, he was replaced by… another PAL, Alberto Gonzalez. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979.md?page=4)