# Who has been worst - Bush or Obama? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 30, 2014, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979 "2014-09-30T16:54:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/141 "2014-10-08T17:19:37Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The other thing iiandyii fails to consider is how hawkish the Democrats in Congress are right now. The President has played a large role in whipping them into this condition by his rhetoric. He can’t back down. He will actually leave them in an untenable political position if he does. Wrong. I’m not just looking at the polls of today. If we get in a ground war, Obama and the Democrats will be in far, far more trouble in the long run than not getting into a ground war. Polling was wrong about the war in 2003, and it’s wrong now, if the polling suggests we should get involved in a ground war. My brother, alone in my Democratic family in 2003 opposing the Iraq war, was absolutely right – me and my dad (and most Americans) were wrong. If most Americans think we should put troops back in, they’re wrong, and the Democrats will suffer politically for it if we do it. > [@](#): > > In this case, the politics and our national security interests align. No they don’t. Getting into a ground war would be a political disaster for the Democrats, in the long run, just like the Iraq war was for the Republicans. A nightmare political scenario, and one that could possibly even lead to a third anti-war party. > [@](#): > > ISIS must be defeated, or at least they must be denied territory that they control. It’s a very doable mission, and it will be done. I just do not believe the President would define the mission so precisely and name the enemy so directly and bluntly if there was any chance whatsoever that he would back down from what it took to win this war. I hope he doesn’t put in ground forces, and I don’t think he will. I also don’t think they’re necessary to protect our interests. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/142 "2014-10-08T17:22:44Z")
We either do it soon, or after they attack us. At a time of our choosing, or at a time of their choosing. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/143 "2014-10-08T17:30:31Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > We either do it soon, or after they attack us. At a time of our choosing, or at a time of their choosing. I see no reason to believe that ground troops would have any effect on the timing or whether or not some terrorist group tries to attack us. If we swat ISIS another group will take their place. And I’m not willing to throw away thousands of American lives on the off chance that it might protect us from some attack on the homeland that might kill dozens – chiefly because throwing troops at it won’t do anything. Plane-to-missile 9/11 style hijackings will _never happen again_ – both because of better cockpit doors and because the passengers will never allow it. Yes, terrorists might sneak guys over here and kill some Americans. There’s no way to prevent this, and sending troops to Syria and Iraq certainly won’t. Our best defense is good intelligence and solid law enforcement. This “fight over there so we don’t have to over here” is _always bullshit_ unless you’re talking about an asteroid. We’re not going to kill everyone over there, so there will be terrorists as long as there are a significant number of people that hate America. And fighting over there with ground troops, in the long run, just creates more of these folks then it kills. Fighting ISIS with massed ground troops would make America less safe, lead to more death and destruction of American (and other) lives, politically ruin whichever party makes the decision, and make the situation in Iraq and Syria no better. It would be a disaster all around, just like the last Iraq war. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/144 "2014-10-08T17:45:38Z")
Worse than either Bush or Obama is a person who uses \*worst \*as a superlative, not a comparative. Bosh and Obama add up to only two persons, making \*worse \*the proper choice of word. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/145 "2014-10-08T18:03:58Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Worse than either Bush or Obama is a person who uses \*worst \*as a superlative, not a comparative. Bosh and Obama add up to only two persons, making \*worse \*the proper choice of word. > > 😉 You’re ignoring that GWB and Obama might be the two most popular choices for _worst U.S. President ever_. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/146 "2014-10-08T18:15:11Z")
Yup. God bless the Baby Boomers. Their parents always said it would be a nightmare when they took over, and sure enough… ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/147 "2014-10-08T18:16:47Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > You’re ignoring that GWB and Obama might be the two most popular choices for _worst U.S. President ever_. Recency bias. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/148 "2014-10-08T18:17:42Z")
Let’s hope that the next President gives us recency bias in the other directon: Greatest President ever! ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/149 "2014-10-08T18:46:34Z")
She will certainly have the chance. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/150 "2014-10-08T20:49:11Z")
Heh. Great answer. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/151 "2014-10-08T21:36:20Z")
The Shrub is likely the worst President in memory. F. Obama has been disappointing, but not bad at all. B- or C+. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/152 "2014-10-08T22:07:27Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Let’s hope that the next President gives us recency bias in the other directon: Greatest President ever! > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > She will certainly have the chance. > [@adaher](#): > > Heh. Great answer. I don’t know. Elizabeth Warren is unlikely to be _that_ great. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/153 "2014-10-08T22:43:46Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Yup. God bless the Baby Boomers. Their parents always said it would be a nightmare when they took over, and sure enough… This exchange warms my heart. The week after the October 1987 stock market crash, the curmudgeonly conservative P. J. O’Rourke wrote a column in the Washington Post riffing on how for the Baby Boomers, “Life’s big Visa card bill ha(d) finally come due”. One of his remarks about the boomers was that you could tell how messed up they were “by the quality of presidents we used to have, like Truman and Eisenhower, compared to the ones we got when the boomers started voting, like Carter and Reagan”. Here’s hoping we’re all around in another quarter century so you can explain to us why Obama (wa)s a lot better than whoever is in office then. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/154 "2014-10-09T13:46:10Z")
> [@F.U.Shakespeare](#): > > Here’s hoping we’re all around in another quarter century so you can explain to us why Obama (wa)s a lot better than whoever is in office then. 😉 [Historian: FDR Was The Last Great President. Let’s Never Have Another](http://www.npr.org/2014/10/06/354082227/fdr-was-a-great-president-but-do-we-really-want-another-great-president) > [@](#): > > That’s why, I argue, we do not want another great president. And if you want one, buckle your seatbelts, because you’re gonna have a nation-encumbering calamity, and I’m not certain we could produce the leader to deal with it. > > What I’m arguing is that we have to stop expecting the kind of greatness that we witnessed in the past so that we can allow our presidents to be good. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/155 "2014-10-09T14:09:11Z")
Bill Clinton was good. I’ll take that kind of competence again in a heartbeat. ---
**Author:** ![EndlessEntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f9ae1b/32.png) [@EndlessEntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EndlessEntropy)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/156 "2014-10-09T14:38:33Z")
Perhaps not related to this discussion, but Bush become a serious contender for the presidency solely due to his family’s wealth and connections. No way he becomes President if his dad wasn’t president and grandfather wasn’t a prominent politician. Anyway, it’s way too soon to accurately compare Bush and Obama a) because Obama is still president for another 2 years and b) it’s going to be at least a decade before we see the full effects of his domestic and foreign policies and even for Bush. If I had to choose though, Bush. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2014, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/157 "2014-10-10T00:18:34Z")
[The Rude Pundit writes:](http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/2014/10/the-quiet-competence-of-barack-obama.html) “The Quiet Competence of Barack Obama.” ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2014, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/158 "2014-10-10T03:18:10Z")
Oh, that’s funny. Sorry, there’s no way to put competence and Obama in the same sentence unless you’ve decided that he doesn’t actually have to insure that his administration runs properly. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2014, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/159 "2014-10-10T03:40:58Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Oh, that’s funny. Sorry, there’s no way to put competence and Obama in the same sentence unless you’ve decided that he doesn’t actually have to insure that his administration runs properly. You’re excellent at this irony thing, you know. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2014, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/160 "2014-10-10T03:41:58Z")
Competent leaders don’t need to throw their subordinates under the bus every month or so. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979.md?page=9)