# Who has been worst - Bush or Obama? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 30, 2014, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979 "2014-09-30T16:54:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Nema98](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/d2c977/32.png) [@Nema98](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nema98)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2014, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/161 "2014-10-10T04:32:21Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > We have universal health care now? I think you might get corrected on that one. No not really, Obamacare many people have access to health insurance that they did not before. Medicaid and Medicare are not comparable, and are usually for older folks. Plus it was not universal healthcare. The U.S has lagged behind other wealthy nations in terms of healthcare coverage. ---
**Author:** ![Nema98](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/d2c977/32.png) [@Nema98](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nema98)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2014, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/162 "2014-10-10T04:39:46Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > The costs of inspections, enforcing sanctions and no-fly were modest. The costs of establishing and maintaining a large U.S. Army in Arabia preparatory to the invasion were much higher and were frequently cited as a reason to attack soon – a rather circular argument for going to war. > > I don’t have a cite, but I recall stories that Iraq was ready to be be more compliant, even planning to send Saddam into exile. The Cheney Administration sped up the invasion to ensure this would not come to pass. Fight my ignorance: any validity to that? Cheney Administration, LMAO! ---
**Author:** ![EndlessEntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f9ae1b/32.png) [@EndlessEntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EndlessEntropy)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2014, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/163 "2014-10-10T04:52:36Z")
Bush will be remembered as one of this country’s greatest mistakes. His foreign policy fuck ups and domestic acts will be coming home to roost for years and decades to come. ‘Mission Accomplished’ was and still is one of the most pathetic and laughable PR stunts I’ve ever seen and basically a punch to the gut of every American and innocent civilians affected by his foreign policy. There had better not be a national day of mourning when Bush dies. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/164 "2014-10-15T11:00:24Z")
A small contribution to Obama’s place in history from Jimmy Carter. When Jimmy Carter is more hawkish than you, that makes you the most dovish President, well, ever: [http://www.star-telegram.com/2014/10/07/6182968/carter-unhappy-with-obamas-policies.html?rh=1](http://www.star-telegram.com/2014/10/07/6182968/carter-unhappy-with-obamas-policies.html?rh=1) > [@](#): > > “First of all, we waited too long. We let the Islamic state build up its money, capability and strength and weapons while it was still in Syria,” he said. “Then when [ISIS] moved into Iraq, the Sunni Muslims didn’t object to their being there and about a third of the territory in Iraq was abandoned.” > > Carter sees some hope for the current American policy against ISIS in Iraq where troops on the ground will follow up after air strikes. > > “If we keep on working in Iraq and have some ground troops to follow up when we do our bombing, there is a possibility of success.” > > No such ground troops are available in Syria at the moment, he said. > > “You have to have somebody on the ground to direct our missiles and to be sure you have the right target,” Carter said. “Then you have to have somebody to move in and be willing to fight ISIS after the strikes.” ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/165 "2014-10-15T11:11:05Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > A small contribution to Obama’s place in history from Jimmy Carter. When Jimmy Carter is more hawkish than you, that makes you the most dovish President, well, ever You say this as if it’s a bad thing. I think he’s definitely struck the right balance – strike hard for actual legitimate threats to America (e.g. OBL) and don’t risk American lives when it’s not an actual threat to America (e.g. Libya, Syria, ISIS). ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/166 "2014-10-15T17:22:33Z")
You might be right. The proof will be in how well the threats to this country were dealt with. He should not leave his successor a more dangerous world than he inherited. Which is why he’ll need to do more to fight ISIS. THey are still advancing and practically everyone is telling him he’ll need ground troops. History will not be kind if Obama is “that guy who thought Jimmy Carter was a warmonger”. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/167 "2014-10-15T17:42:37Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > He should not leave his successor a more dangerous world than he inherited. He _couldn’t._ ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/168 "2014-10-15T17:45:02Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > He should not leave his successor a more dangerous world than he inherited. This would be extremely difficult; America is far, far safer now than it was when we had troops in Iraq and OBL was alive. > [@](#): > > Which is why he’ll need to do more to fight ISIS. Not necessarily. ISIS has so far demonstrated no ability to harm the US any more than a handful of terrorists anywhere else could. > [@](#): > > THey are still advancing and practically everyone is telling him he’ll need ground troops. It’s not “practically everyone”, and in the last 10 to 15 years, the conventional wisdom on when and where to deploy troops has a terrible track record. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/169 "2014-10-15T18:41:30Z")
I am no longer really an Obama fan, though I’d love to see how the country would look today if he’d had a halfway normal Congress. This is an utterly ridiculous question, though. It’s like asking whether a papercut is worse than a gunshot wound to the temple. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/170 "2014-10-15T18:53:43Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > He _couldn’t._ Arguably, the world is more dangerous today than it’s been since the 1970s. The terrorist threat is undiminished and Russia is getting ambitious again. The President’s rhetoric has been very firm, even saber-rattling, against both ISIS and Russia. If his bluff gets called, he’ll leave the world a very dangerous place, with America’s prestige and credibility in the toilet. So hopefully his actions match his words over the next two years. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/171 "2014-10-15T18:57:59Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Arguably, the world is more dangerous today than it’s been since the 1970s. This is not arguable, especially not from an American point of view. > [@](#): > > The terrorist threat is undiminished and Russia is getting ambitious again. The terrorist threat is very diminished and Russia is a feeble bully to everyone except their immediate neighbors. And if Russia attacks a NATO member, their military would be exposed for the paper tiger that it is. > [@](#): > > The President’s rhetoric has been very firm, even saber-rattling, against both ISIS and Russia. If his bluff gets called, he’ll leave the world a very dangerous place, with America’s prestige and credibility in the toilet. America’s prestige and credibility are far higher now than they were under Bush, and another war of choice, like deploying troops in Iraq or Syria, would only damage our prestige and credibility. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/172 "2014-10-15T19:00:03Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The terrorist threat is undiminished Bush: “Who knows if he’s hiding in some cave or not. We haven’t heard from him in a long time. The idea of focusing on one person really indicates to me people don’t understand the scope of the mission. Terror is bigger than one person. He’s just a person who’s been marginalized… I don’t know where he is. I really just don’t spend that much time on him, to be honest with you.” Obama: “We got him”. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2014, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/173 "2014-10-19T19:41:27Z")
[Paul Krugman writes in _Rolling Stone:_ “In Defense of Obama.”](http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/in-defense-of-obama-20141008) [Salon’s Thomas Frank responds critically.](http://www.salon.com/2014/10/19/thomas_frank_paul_krugmans_sloppy_wet_kiss/) ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2014, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/174 "2014-10-19T20:18:43Z")
> [@EndlessEntropy](#): > > There had better not be a national day of mourning when Bush dies. Of course there will be. As there was for Nixon and will be for every former President. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2014, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/175 "2014-10-20T00:03:29Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Of course there will be. As there was for Nixon and will be for every former President. I don’t recall one for Nixon. Was there? I’m sure he got no state funeral. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2014, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/176 "2014-10-20T00:11:35Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I don’t recall one for Nixon. Was there? I’m sure he got no state funeral. There was a [day of mourning](http://articles.latimes.com/1994-04-24/news/mn-49889_1_richard-nixon) and a relatively lavish funeral, but not an official, lying-in-state-in-the-Capitol-rotunda funeral. It all took place at the Nixon Library in Yorba Linda. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2014, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/177 "2014-10-20T01:01:44Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > There was a [day of mourning](http://articles.latimes.com/1994-04-24/news/mn-49889_1_richard-nixon) and a relatively lavish funeral, but not an official, lying-in-state-in-the-Capitol-rotunda funeral. It all took place at the Nixon Library in Yorba Linda. Oh, yes, I’ve been to that library. It is a surreal experience. ---
**Author:** ![cornopean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@cornopean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornopean)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2014, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/178 "2014-10-20T22:18:52Z")
The problem is not with Bush or Obama. The problem is with govt in general. I am so disgusted with govt in general. It just doesn’t work. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2014, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/179 "2014-10-20T22:49:23Z")
And you just KNOW anarchy would be so much more effective… ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2014, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979/180 "2014-10-20T23:16:16Z")
No, just the recognition that government is a necessary evil that we place over men because men are not angels. And since men are not angels, government will never be benevolent. It’s pretty simple. Just think about cops. Cops are absolutely necessary, but there’s a lot of guys out there with power trips and some are just crooks. Now imagine most of the rest of the government with the same type of people, but with less scrutiny and accountability than police officers receive. The first step is to limit government to essential functions. The second is to provide constant oversight in the interest of the public to make sure it’s doing it’s job. Problem is, we’ve got one party that not only loves government, it basically represents the interests of the government itself, and prioritizes the interests of the people in the government over the citizenry. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-been-worst-bush-or-obama/699979.md?page=10)