# Who has read Asminov's Foundation series (and is it a 'prequel' to WTC/ 9-11?) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 4, 2002, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-read-asminovs-foundation-series-and-is-it-a-prequel-to-wtc-9-11/112301 "2002-06-04T03:09:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2002, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-read-asminovs-foundation-series-and-is-it-a-prequel-to-wtc-9-11/112301/1 "2002-06-04T03:09:47Z")
I have never read Asminov, but I was reading in my favorite magazine [www.forteantimes.com](http://www.forteantimes.com) (the article is not online (yet) but in the latest magazine, about how Asminov’s \*\*The Foundation \*\* is very chillingly like the events that lead up to the Sept 11. "Hari Seldon has the vision to predict the decline of the West (as you might call it). So he creates an organization on a remote and poverty stricken world which will eventually take over and run the galaxy properly - once the Empire has finished its inevitable fall. Seldon is so confident of his 1,000 year Plan that he preares videotapes to be shown at key points in the future, bragging about the correct forecasts and the schemes ongoing success." It goes on to point out that Osama Bin Laden is an anagram of sorts with \*I am Seldon, BA, man \* and that this book series is particularly popular amongst Arabic sci-fi readers. Which ( I’d like verification on this) that the translation from English to Arabic for the title \*The Foundation \* is \*Al Qaeda \*. What does Al Qaeda translate to, anyway? The writer ( David Langford) covers things nicely, but I have never read the book or series or anything by Asminov. Has anyone else here read it ( long before WTC) and when everything started happening recently make you recall this book. ---
**Author:** ![Dragon\_Phoenix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@Dragon\_Phoenix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dragon_Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2002, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-read-asminovs-foundation-series-and-is-it-a-prequel-to-wtc-9-11/112301/2 "2002-06-04T03:13:24Z")
Yes and no. Seems extremely unlikely to me. Good read though. ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2002, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-read-asminovs-foundation-series-and-is-it-a-prequel-to-wtc-9-11/112301/3 "2002-06-04T03:13:49Z")
\*\*Hit enter too soon \*\* What came first, Asminov’s The Foundation (translation of Al Qaeda) or the name of the terrorist group? This is the first I have heard of any of this. Am I the last to know? ---
**Author:** ![Dragon\_Phoenix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@Dragon\_Phoenix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dragon_Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2002, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-read-asminovs-foundation-series-and-is-it-a-prequel-to-wtc-9-11/112301/4 "2002-06-04T03:22:58Z")
Well, the books date back to the fourties IIRC - kind of answers that question. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2002, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-read-asminovs-foundation-series-and-is-it-a-prequel-to-wtc-9-11/112301/5 "2002-06-04T03:28:34Z")
The problem is that the book is not called “The Foundation” but simply “Foundation.” Also, Osama Bin Laden is also anagrams for: A LABIA MENDS NO IM BONED AS ANAL I MOAN ANAL BEDS God, what a pervert! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2002, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-read-asminovs-foundation-series-and-is-it-a-prequel-to-wtc-9-11/112301/6 "2002-06-04T03:32:02Z")
The Foundation series, if it’s about any real life analogue, is about the fall of the Roman Empire. In the books, the Galactic Empire is falling apart, which Seldon is able to prove through a new mathematical theory of history which he has worked out. He therefore establishes a sort of Galactic library in the far corner of the Galaxy, with the goal of preserving the knowledge of the Empire to shorten the Dark Ages that will result. In reality, though, Seldon realizes that his foundation will become the seed of a new, revived empire, because it will keep the organization and science of the old Empire. So, if you had to make comparisons, the Galactic Empire is Ancient Rome, and the foundation is the Catholic church. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2002, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-read-asminovs-foundation-series-and-is-it-a-prequel-to-wtc-9-11/112301/7 "2002-06-04T03:34:14Z")
David Langford is also a well-known humorist and one of the best, if not the best, parodist in the sf field. He has a wicked sense of humor. I would not take what he says in the Fortean Times seriously. And it’s spelled Asimov, Isaac Asimov. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2002, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-read-asminovs-foundation-series-and-is-it-a-prequel-to-wtc-9-11/112301/8 "2002-06-04T03:39:10Z")
I’ve read the “Foundation” series a time or two and whoever claims it has some meaningful analog to 9/11 (other than anagrams!) is full of pungent shaving cream. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2002, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-read-asminovs-foundation-series-and-is-it-a-prequel-to-wtc-9-11/112301/9 "2002-06-04T04:06:35Z")
David Langdon is an anagram for both “Odd DNA laving” and “ID Vandal Dong”. By examining these two names carefully, we can clearly see that there is actually a cover for a secret project involving genetically engineering the mummified remains of ancient European barbarians. Obviously, this Al-Queda/Foundation theory is a red herring to draw attention away from the Illuminati plot to build a clone army with the intent of stealing the Atlantean gold hidden under Lake Geneva. ---
**Author:** ![Mephisto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@Mephisto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mephisto)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2002, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-read-asminovs-foundation-series-and-is-it-a-prequel-to-wtc-9-11/112301/10 "2002-06-04T05:24:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shirley Ujest \* > \*\*What does Al Qaeda translate to, anyway? > > \*\* I was told Al Qaeda translated into “The Base,” which, I guess, could be translated into “The Foundation.” My source, however, is a TV show–which one, I’m not sure. I vaguely remember Sam Donaldson talking about it though, so . . . ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2002, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-read-asminovs-foundation-series-and-is-it-a-prequel-to-wtc-9-11/112301/11 "2002-06-04T15:57:40Z")
Ah, another of my favorite childhood books gets mentioned in the Cafe! What a week we’re having. The Foundation, the enclave of scientists whose mission is to shorten the coming dark ages, are SCIENTISTS of every stripe. They (like the good Doctor A.) were huge believers in science, technology, etc., as a boon to mankind. As far as I can tell, Al Qaeda and the other protozoa behind 9/11 are pretty much anti-science, so I can’t see this analogy being anything but a suble jape. Further: it wasn’t a “poverty stricken” world, it had the full backing and support of the current empire to get things going. It wouldn’t “take over” but rather fill a void that was begining to appear on its own. The “videotapes” (actually holograms) weren’t there to brag about successful forecasts, but to help the Foundation through its inevitable crises. Hope this helps!..Tim ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2002, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-read-asminovs-foundation-series-and-is-it-a-prequel-to-wtc-9-11/112301/12 "2002-06-04T16:28:29Z")
The Al Qaeda = Foundation has been discussed among SF writers. The consensus is that the arabic “al qaeda” was intended to mean “the base,” that it doesn’t seem like “Foundation” was ever translated into Arabic, and that bin Laden has never shown any knowlege or interest in science fiction. The rumor has spread, much like the rumor that Charles Manson was influenced by “Stranger in a Strange Land\*,” but there is nothing to back up the assertions. \*Heinlein has someone interview Manson about it, and discovered Charlie never read any fiction. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2002, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-read-asminovs-foundation-series-and-is-it-a-prequel-to-wtc-9-11/112301/13 "2002-06-04T16:37:02Z")
> [@](#): > > Osama Bin Laden is an anagram of sorts with I am Seldon, BA, man please. Did you know that Tars Tarkas Rhitle is an anagram for Tars Tarkas Hitler??? why aren’t you people trying to kill me?? ---
**Author:** ![king\_of\_spain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7cd45c/32.png) [@king\_of\_spain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/king_of_spain)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2002, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-read-asminovs-foundation-series-and-is-it-a-prequel-to-wtc-9-11/112301/14 "2002-06-04T16:42:00Z")
Oh my God! Tom Riddle is Lord Voldemort! ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2002, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-read-asminovs-foundation-series-and-is-it-a-prequel-to-wtc-9-11/112301/15 "2002-06-04T16:46:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sublight \* > \*\*David Langdon is an anagram for both “Odd DNA laving” and “ID Vandal Dong”. \*\* Which is fascinating, except that the man’s name is David Langford. Start again. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2002, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-read-asminovs-foundation-series-and-is-it-a-prequel-to-wtc-9-11/112301/16 "2002-06-04T17:03:17Z")
_Wired_ magazine a few years ago printed an article about a group of Western business men who supposedly have started a “Foundation” type organization for when Western civilization collapses. Personally, I think that a Roman Empire style collapse is unlikely for Western civilization, and I can’t imagine bin Laden modelling anything after Asimov’s Foundation series. (Unless Laden’s “The Mule.”) ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2002, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-read-asminovs-foundation-series-and-is-it-a-prequel-to-wtc-9-11/112301/17 "2002-06-04T18:36:55Z")
Considering Dr. Asimov himself has said repeatedly that his _Foundation_ stuff is all a thinly-veiled rehash of the _Fall of the Roman Empire,_ I think attributing any sort of prescience of al Qaeda is so much hooey. ---
**Author:** ![Futile\_Gesture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f05b48/32.png) [@Futile\_Gesture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futile_Gesture)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2002, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-read-asminovs-foundation-series-and-is-it-a-prequel-to-wtc-9-11/112301/18 "2002-06-04T19:49:11Z")
Yes. It is all true. Osama Bin Laden is an avid sci-fi fan and was often seen at West Coast conventions dressed as a Wookie. He named his organisation specifically to be a cunning anagram in English. The Asimov connection continues with the bombers, who were obviously Asmovian robots with their ‘First Law Of Robotics’ turned off. Asimov, despite giving all the impression of being an American Jew and fiction writer, was actually an Islamic terrorist under 70 years of deep cover, writing a thinly disguised terrorist handbook. Thank goodness some-one has spotted all this. We are now bound to foil all Bin Laden’s other plans. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2002, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-read-asminovs-foundation-series-and-is-it-a-prequel-to-wtc-9-11/112301/19 "2002-06-04T20:28:08Z")
No. Hmm? Oh. More? Well, if anything, _Dune_ has many more spot-on insights into the current situation. ---
**Author:** ![majinborg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/db5fbb/32.png) [@majinborg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/majinborg)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2002, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-read-asminovs-foundation-series-and-is-it-a-prequel-to-wtc-9-11/112301/20 "2002-06-04T20:45:43Z")
I recently spent eight months doing an AP-level research paper on Asimov’s _Foundation_ series. This included a section on what influenced Asimov, a larger section on the themes and character development, and a still larger section of quotation analyses. In addition, I had at least 25 professional literary-type-people as sources. Therefore, I can confidently say, with the benefit of my experience, that Asimov’s _Foundation_ series is in NO WAY WHATSOEVER related to ANYTHING AT ALL except the fall of the Roman Empire. Thank you and have a nice, terrorist-free day. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-read-asminovs-foundation-series-and-is-it-a-prequel-to-wtc-9-11/112301.md?page=2)