# Who has the best cornbread? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** food-cooking\ **Created:** [February 18, 2023, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-the-best-cornbread/980004 "2023-02-18T19:17:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2023, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-the-best-cornbread/980004/61 "2023-08-01T09:46:40Z")
I’m sure that’s tasty, but i really like a crumbly cornbread made from yellow corn meal. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2023, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-the-best-cornbread/980004/62 "2023-08-01T09:50:50Z")
> [@Common\_Tater](#): > > Of course any additionals like milk or eggs or butter will tend to improve it or increase how rich it tastes. I noticed some of the recipes above don’t even contain any flour. That might be authentic too, but bet it is awfully crumbly? More eggs and milk help bind a cornbread without wheat flour. Corn flour and corn starch can be used as binders also. For creamier cake use a whole cup of sour cream. I add corn oil to the mix but it’s not very good for greasing the pan. Butter is excellent at that and makes for a nice crust. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2023, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-the-best-cornbread/980004/63 "2023-08-01T12:07:44Z")
I prefer the taste and texture of **[cracklin](https://southernhomeexpress.com/cracklin-cornbread/)** cornbread. There is no law against combining butter and bacon grease (except in New Jersey, I’m told). That way you get the flavor of bacon, and the taste of butter, which can best be described as…I’m having trouble coming up with the proper adjective…ah yes, “buttery!” Buttery bacon-flavored pan-fried cracklin’ cornbread—it’s the best! ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2023, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-the-best-cornbread/980004/64 "2023-08-01T12:24:00Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > I’ll take cornbread made from a box of Jiffy mix over any of the dozens of others I’ve tried. Same here. I heard Jiffy holds something like [90% of the national market](https://academic-accelerator.com/encyclopedia/jiffy-mix#:~:text=September%20to%20January.-,Today,estimates%20and%20Howdy%20Holmes%20estimates.%20.) here. So for a whole lot of consumers that grew up on Jiffy corn muffin mix, the brand represents the baseline of normality. Cornbread is _supposed_ to be sweet. That’s the breed standard expectation at any rate. Sure, it’s possible to make savory cornbread instead of sweet just like it’s possible to brew beer using quinoa instead of barley, or pizza made with gluten-free crust. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2023, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-the-best-cornbread/980004/65 "2023-08-01T13:17:57Z")
[Great recipe for Jiffy cornbread here](https://spicysouthernkitchen.com/the-best-jiffy-cornbread/). A recipe like this give me the idea to use sour cream. Takes 2 boxes of Jiffy mix. I try to keep them in the cabinet and have to use them up every few months before the baking powder goes flat. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2023, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-the-best-cornbread/980004/66 "2023-08-01T14:18:31Z")
> [@Cardigan](#): > > Cornbread is _supposed_ to be sweet. That’s the breed standard expectation at any rate. Oh, that is a highly contentious, [hotly debated](https://www.southernliving.com/food/bread/cornbread-sugar-debate) statement. Personally, I (a transplanted Yankee) like my cornbread _slightly_ sweet (a pinch of saccharin, since I’m diabetic). But most born-and-bred Southerners I encounter think I’m a _damn, tasteless Yank_ for liking _any_ sweetness in my cracklin cornbread. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2023, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-the-best-cornbread/980004/67 "2023-08-01T14:47:53Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Here you go. That’s really interesting, and a somewhat different explanation from this one: > **[Why does sugar in cornbread divide races in the South?](https://www.charlotteobserver.com/living/food-drink/article68763427.html)** > > Culinary historians have debated this one for years > [@](#): > > So many Southern food traditions are shared by both races. Most Southerners, black and white, revere fried chicken, pursue pork barbecue and exalt their grandmothers’ garden vegetables. So why is there such a fundamental difference between two styles of one basic bread? > … > Until early in the 20th century, Southern cornmeal was made with sweeter white corn and it was water-ground. When industrial milling came along, that changed. The steel-roller mills used yellow corn that was harvested before it was ripe, so it had less sugar. They eliminated the germ so it kept longer, but it had less corn flavor. And they ground it finer. You had to add a little flour to help it rise and sugar to add flavor. Yellow cornmeal was cheap, though. So black cooks who had little money may have changed their cornbread to match the cornmeal they could afford. Toni Tipton Martin’s new book, “The Jemima Code,” on the history of African-American cookbooks, shows that in the 19th century, books by Malinda Russell and Abby Fisher showed no sugar in the cornbread recipes. By 1912, in “The Kentucky Cookbook” by Mrs. W.T. Hayes, the cornbread called for 1 tablespoon sugar. > … > What about the claim that sweet cornbread is Northern? Adrian Miller, author of “Soul Food: The Surprising Story of an American Cuisine,” thinks that association started with the Great Migration, when blacks moved North in search of better jobs in the early 20th century. In the North, where they would have only had industrially milled cornbread, the sugar habit got even more entrenched, then came back to the South with the rise of soul food restaurants. > … > “So often, what is Southern, how is Southern, why is Southern has been determined by Southern white people. It is part of the larger discussion of whether or not you see Southern culture from the perspective of the big house or the slave quarters. We’re still having this argument 100 years later, but we’re using different vehicles to have it. Including cornbread.” TLDR version: the “cornbread has no sugar” tends to be said by White southerners engaged in some gatekeeping. It’s a good idea not to do that. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2023, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-the-best-cornbread/980004/68 "2023-08-01T15:14:36Z")
I was posting that in regards to cornbread without flour in it, but an interesting set of data points about sugar vs no sugar. (Yes, I understand the title of the article linked to is about sugar, but it also addressed the flour situation, which is what my direct response was meant for.) I’m a Yankee and I could care less what you put or don’t in your cornbread. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2023, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-the-best-cornbread/980004/69 "2023-08-01T15:14:38Z")
Or…we grew up with no-sugar cornbread, we _like_ no-sugar cornbread, and we will always _make_ no-sugar corn bread. No gate-keeping involved. My cornbread is pure Texas: savory, crumbly and made in a screaming hot cast iron skillet. Usually with Ortega chilis and some shredded cheese added. Maybe some bacon. Unless I’m having greens. Then it’s just the basic busted up into the pot likker. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2023, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-the-best-cornbread/980004/70 "2023-08-01T15:23:58Z")
I grew up with jiffy corn bread, but now make my own. I find i like a little sugar when i cook it into muffins, but prefer no sugar when i make it in a cast iron skillet as a “loaf”. (Cake? Like pancake?) I use a cast iron mold for muffins, so it cooks pretty similarly, i guess i just have different expectations for a muffin-shaped-like-a-bunny than i do for a slice. But i really strongly prefer the more pronounced “corn” flavor of yellow cornmeal, and i also prefer the grittier texture of stone-ground. I’m not looking for dessert, even when i make sweeter corn muffins. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2023, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-the-best-cornbread/980004/71 "2023-08-01T15:26:53Z")
> [@Common\_Tater](#): > > Unless some sort of acidity is involved the baking powder will have little or no action, leading to a dense product. Baking soda needs to be combined with an acid, and if it isn’t, it not only won’t work, it’ll taste terrible. Baking powder is a mixture of baking soda with some sort of dry acid, and so doesn’t need anything else. ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2023, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-the-best-cornbread/980004/72 "2023-08-01T15:42:51Z")
You’re right, of course. But I think what’s happening, corn meal is pretty dense, it seems to make a noticeable difference in the rise when using buttermilk or some kind of additional acidity. I haven’t tried sour cream, it works in everything else naturally, so it should be great. I’ve used every sort of dairy or near-dairy when camping. Powdered non-fat milk is OK, but that’s all it will ever be in any recipe probably. Evaporated milk is acceptable. I like half and half too, but I never buy that either. I think Puzzlegal has it right. Cornbread should have a pronounced corn flavor, with a bit of grittiness, and I like the buttery overtones, a crispy exterior and savory goodness, that pairs so well with other foods. When made just right it does maybe seem to be on the ragged edge of crumbly-ness. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2023, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-the-best-cornbread/980004/73 "2023-08-01T16:25:38Z")
Certainly a little extra acidity (unlike extra base) won’t hurt a dish, and sour cream is a welcome addition to a great many recipes. (what’s the base equivalent of the word “acidity”, anyway?) ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2023, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-the-best-cornbread/980004/74 "2023-08-01T16:34:46Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I was posting that in regards to cornbread without flour in it, but an interesting set of data points about sugar vs no sugar. (Yes, I understand the title of the article linked to is about sugar, but it also addressed the flour situation, which is what my direct response was meant for.) Oops–sorry, I got confused. You’re right. > [@](#): > > I’m a Yankee and I could care less what you put or don’t in your cornbread. This is, of course, the only correct answer. > [@silenus](#): > > Or…we grew up with no-sugar cornbread, we _like_ no-sugar cornbread, and we will always _make_ no-sugar corn bread. No gate-keeping involved. Sure–preferring it sugarless is cool. The sort of gatekeeping I’m talking about, which shows up pretty often in conversations about cornbread, is this sort: > [@Chronos](#): > > Cornbread should not include sugar or other added sweeteners. > [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > As to the sugar question, you’re making cornbread not a cake so no to the sugar. I don’t think people saying it are malicious or racist or anything, but it’s kind of cool to know the origin of the different takes, and on knowing it, not to stake out a “should” position on the subject. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2023, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-the-best-cornbread/980004/75 "2023-08-01T17:18:06Z")
I’ve always seen foodie gatekeeping more as harmless fun than anything else. I guess some people take it seriously, but I don’t get the sense most people really care. I’ll go to my grave saying real chili doesn’t have beans, but I actually don’t care and I eat (and occasionally make) plenty of chili with beans. I just think those sorts of food traditions and arguments are interesting and fun. Maybe not when they have a racist backbone, of course, but otherwise. Like ketchup on hot dogs. Absolutely not. It has no business on a hot dog. Well, except the times it does. It’s just being goofy. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2023, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-the-best-cornbread/980004/76 "2023-08-01T17:24:26Z")
There’s good cornbread with sugar, and good cornbread without sugar. Hardly a hill worth dying on. Nothing wrong with pointing out traditional Southern cooking doesn’t use sugar in cornbread, but also that traditional Southern cooking doesn’t cover all the cooking styles of the American south either. It’s a choice. As mentioned above, ketchup on a hot dog is not just a choice because it’s flat out wrong. You can eat hot dog with ketchup on it if you want, but puppies will die if you do that. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2023, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-the-best-cornbread/980004/77 "2023-08-01T17:30:34Z")
To the extent that my “should” can be taken as proscriptive, it’s only for meeting my standards of what is best. If someone else wants to make their food differently, and I’m not the one eating it, it makes no difference to me. Heck, even if I am the one eating it, and they make it the “wrong” way for my tastes, common courtesy still dictates that I eat it and thank them for it. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2023, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-the-best-cornbread/980004/78 "2023-08-01T17:46:49Z")
Fair enough! ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2023, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-the-best-cornbread/980004/79 "2023-08-01T17:48:54Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > As mentioned above, ketchup on a hot dog is not just a choice because it’s flat out wrong. You can eat hot dog with ketchup on it if you want, but puppies will die if you do that. There’s a small aside in _The Bear_ where the gourmet chef in Chicago is strongarmed into catering a rich kid’s birthday party. He’s setting up hotdogs and asks his asshole assistant where the ketchup is. “Ketchup?” the asshole scowls. “Who the hell puts ketchup on a hotdog?” The chef looks around. “KIDS!” he shouts. ---
**Author:** ![Tzigone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Tzigone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tzigone)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2023, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-the-best-cornbread/980004/80 "2023-08-01T18:05:16Z")
No love for Martha White (hey, Jiffy was mentioned)? I just the MW self-rising cornbread mix with the old recipe (buttermilk and no egg). Buttermilk makes all the difference the world, IMO. I know they have a buttermilk mix, but I use the other. I put butter on it, and nothing in it. I like it cooked various ways, but I cook it smaller batches - 4 muffins for one meal for two people. You may have realized I’m not much of a cook. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-the-best-cornbread/980004.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-has-the-best-cornbread/980004.md?page=5)