# Who heckled Obama during his address to Congress? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 10, 2009, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-heckled-obama-during-his-address-to-congress/509496 "2009-09-10T00:52:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-heckled-obama-during-his-address-to-congress/509496/141 "2009-09-10T12:56:09Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > This is Mr. Wilson’s opponent, just in case anyone thinks he could use a donation. He’s an Iraq War veteran who got 46.5% of the vote in 08 in a heavily Republican district. > \ I removed this link based on this rule from the Pit Rules sticky: > [@](#): > > Do not post contact information (email, phone, mailing address, etc.) to facilitate a campaign for/against a person, group, or issue > > We don’t want the board used to hassle people or groups of people. You can urge people to write their Congressperson or other political leaders, but let people find the contact information themselves. Don’t post it here. > [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > Yes, shilling for a political campaign: > > \ Please stop junior modding. **Carol** , I know you’ll hate this, but no warning issued. **Gfactor** Pit Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-heckled-obama-during-his-address-to-congress/509496/142 "2009-09-10T13:06:26Z")
Yeah, questioned. That’s exactly what he did. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-heckled-obama-during-his-address-to-congress/509496/143 "2009-09-10T13:08:45Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Someone questioned the Holy One? > > BLASPHEMY! STONE HIM! > > Regards, > Shodan You know what? I’ve written a few times - I doubt you’ve noticed - that I think you’re smarter than what you post in these forums. I still think that, and so, I say, frankly: you are a troll. Literally, completely, in the sense for which the term was invented. I mean, there are really only two choices: (1) you’re stupid enough to think that the near-universal annoyance at Mr. Wilson’s remarks - which has come from noted Obama-worshiper John McCain - is in any way reflective of the sentiment above; or (2) you’re deliberately warping every debate, saying things you don’t actually mean or believe, just to get a rise out of your more sensitive political opponents. I don’t believe #1 to be the case. So it has to be trolling. Why? What’s the point? What do you get out of it? You _know_ why people are bothered by this thing, so why do you pretend to think it’s something else? * * * I hate this shit, I really do. Look, the problem here is not that the man “questioned” President Obama. It’s that he did it at the time, in the place, and in the way he did it. Had Joe Wilson gone on television or mounted the podium or written an editorial laying out his opposition to the President’s plan, based on demonstrable facts and his own analysis thereof - even if his tone was passionate - it would be not just acceptable but incredibly _desirable_. The whole point of this system of government is that it depends on people debating, honestly, publicly, and in good faith, the places where their opinions diverge. Things like shouting “liar!” in the middle of an address lower the tone of the discourse. They make it about yelling and twisting and obfuscating. They create a “debate” with no more value than a grade school playground brawl. It’s so counterproductive, so _stupid_. We have people who don’t know their ass from their elbow when it comes to health care; in fact, most of the country is like that. If the debate is kept on a mutually respectful, fact-based, intelligent level, the discussion itself could serve to educate the people who need it, to allow them to make reasonable decisions. Instead, we shout “liar!” and sniggering morons like **Stephe** smack their hands together gleefully and think that’s “opposition.” That’s not “opposition.” It’s not “dissent.” Dissent is more than a sound-byte, it’s more than an epithet. Now here on this message board, where our collective political influence can be measured in fly farts, it doesn’t matter nearly as much. **Shodan** trolls and **Stephe** wallows and their counterparts on the left make chimp jokes and who gives a shit, really? But Joe Wilson is part of the process. He’s part of the fucking solution, or he should be. When he deliberately lowers the tone of the debate, when he helps the slide into idiocy onto which our political process has been placed… he’s not just showing disrespect for Barack Obama. He’s not just showing disrespect for the “office of the President,” whatever that means. He’s showing disrespect for our entire system of government. He’s showing disrespect for all of us, right, left, middle, and other, by assuming that all of us, like poor stupid **Stephe** , can only manage ideas constructed of simple one-syllable words. And that is why he’s a douchebag, and a national embarassment. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-heckled-obama-during-his-address-to-congress/509496/144 "2009-09-10T13:10:02Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Not quite. Firing on Fort Sumter sets the bar for lowness pretty low. But still worthy of dishonorable mention in any list of Stupidities Emanating from the Palmetto State. A more [on point](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preston_Brooks) example of the South Carolinian Rhetorical Persuasiveness. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-heckled-obama-during-his-address-to-congress/509496/145 "2009-09-10T13:12:55Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Thanks for posting that I was wondering what it was all those Republicans kept hoisting over their heads – copies of the GOP plan. I find this interesting. If the Repubs were so interested in getting health care reforms passed, what were their efforts to this end during the eight years they had the Oval Office and the six years they controlled Congress? According to their own plan, their Health Care Solution Group worked on it for “months.” Why’d they wait until after they had fewer numbers than would ensure passage of \*their \*plan? Why’d Bush spend so much time talking about terrorism and so little time talking about health care? If they truly want heath care reform, why didn’t they push health care reform? Why did the ranks of the uninsured swell by [at least 5.4 million](http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=628), including the addition of 360,000 uninsured children in one year alone? Where have they been? What did they attempt to accomplish on \*their \*watch? ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-heckled-obama-during-his-address-to-congress/509496/146 "2009-09-10T13:16:58Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > I hate this shit, I really do. Look, the problem here is not that the man “questioned” President Obama. It’s that he did it at the time, in the place, and in the way he did it. Had Joe Wilson gone on television or mounted the podium or written an editorial laying out his opposition to the President’s plan, based on demonstrable facts and his own analysis thereof - even if his tone was passionate - it would be not just acceptable but incredibly _desirable_. The whole point of this system of government is that it depends on people debating, honestly, publicly, and in good faith, the places where their opinions diverge. > > Things like shouting “liar!” in the middle of an address lower the tone of the discourse. They make it about yelling and twisting and obfuscating. They create a “debate” with no more value than a grade school playground brawl. It’s so counterproductive, so _stupid_. We have people who don’t know their ass from their elbow when it comes to health care; in fact, most of the country is like that. If the debate is kept on a mutually respectful, fact-based, intelligent level, the discussion itself could serve to educate the people who need it, to allow them to make reasonable decisions. > > Instead, we shout “liar!” and sniggering morons like **Stephe** smack their hands together gleefully and think that’s “opposition.” That’s not “opposition.” It’s not “dissent.” Dissent is more than a sound-byte, it’s more than an epithet. > > Now here on this message board, where our collective political influence can be measured in fly farts, it doesn’t matter nearly as much. **Shodan** trolls and **Stephe** wallows and their counterparts on the left make chimp jokes and who gives a shit, really? > > But Joe Wilson is part of the process. He’s part of the fucking solution, or he should be. When he deliberately lowers the tone of the debate, when he helps the slide into idiocy onto which our political process has been placed… he’s not just showing disrespect for Barack Obama. He’s not just showing disrespect for the “office of the President,” whatever that means. > > He’s showing disrespect for our entire system of government. He’s showing disrespect for all of us, right, left, middle, and other, by assuming that all of us, like poor stupid **Stephe** , can only manage ideas constructed of simple one-syllable words. > > And that is why he’s a douchebag, and a national embarassment. You said this so well. I applaud you. ---
**Author:** ![corkboard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@corkboard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/corkboard)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-heckled-obama-during-his-address-to-congress/509496/147 "2009-09-10T13:17:23Z")
Was Dana Milbank in the room and monitoring the outbursts? I had the sound up at home and only heard Wilson’s comment. I had no idea there were others. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-heckled-obama-during-his-address-to-congress/509496/148 "2009-09-10T13:19:42Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > Obama’s problem is the sinking support for his risky scheme to completely overhaul the nation’s health-care system. Americans don’t want it touched, thank you very much I’m an American, I currently pay into a medical program that would be unaffected by the pending legislation, and I want a public option to be made available. If at some later date a nationalized health care system is adopted, along the lines of those in Britain and France, that’s fine with me too. Your incessant sloganeering and sneering insults, based as they so often are on lies and half-truths, do you no credit. Someday, if you actually are interested in getting people to listen to you, you might want to consider a different approach. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-heckled-obama-during-his-address-to-congress/509496/149 "2009-09-10T13:21:34Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > You know what? I’ve written a few times - I doubt you’ve noticed - that I think you’re smarter than what you post in these forums. I still think that, and so, I say, frankly: you are a troll. Literally, completely, in the sense for which the term was invented. > > I mean, there are really only two choices: (1) you’re stupid enough to think that the near-universal annoyance at Mr. Wilson’s remarks - which has come from noted Obama-worshiper John McCain - is in any way reflective of the sentiment above; or (2) you’re deliberately warping every debate, saying things you don’t actually mean or believe, just to get a rise out of your more sensitive political opponents. > > I don’t believe #1 to be the case. So it has to be trolling. Why? What’s the point? What do you get out of it? You _know_ why people are bothered by this thing, so why do you pretend to think it’s something else? Here’s the thing about **Shodan** : When he actually has a point, he makes it. When he doesn’t, he posts things like the item above. I usually take the latter to mean that he has no coherent counterargument to the matter at hand, and therefore by default he supports the point under discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-heckled-obama-during-his-address-to-congress/509496/150 "2009-09-10T13:22:25Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > You did. A new low for South Carolina. I didn’t think that was possible until last night. > [@Lamar\_Mundane](#): > > What the fuck is wrong with South Carolina? Seriously. When you figure it out, let me know so I can get what’s left of my sane and rational friends and family out of there before we build a wall around it to quarantine it. > [@SenorBeef](#): > > You’re… satire, right? > > Like… Stephen Colbert style? Oh, if only… > [@Shodan](#): > > Someone questioned the Holy One? > > BLASPHEMY! STONE HIM! Calling someone a liar (and falsely, at that, since undocumented aliens will not be eligible for credits to help them buy health insurance) is not questioning. You may want to consult a dictionary. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-heckled-obama-during-his-address-to-congress/509496/151 "2009-09-10T13:23:11Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > You know what? I’ve written a few times - I doubt you’ve noticed - that I think you’re smarter than what you post in these forums. I still think that, and so, I say, frankly: you are a troll. Literally, completely, in the sense for which the term was invented. > > I mean, there are really only two choices: (1) you’re stupid enough to think that the near-universal annoyance at Mr. Wilson’s remarks - which has come from noted Obama-worshiper John McCain - is in any way reflective of the sentiment above; or (2) you’re deliberately warping every debate, saying things you don’t actually mean or believe, just to get a rise out of your more sensitive political opponents. > > I don’t believe #1 to be the case. So it has to be trolling. Why? What’s the point? What do you get out of it? You _know_ why people are bothered by this thing, so why do you pretend to think it’s something else? Actually, it’s option #3 - I am making fun of your position. I derive amusement from mocking the outrage of people who pretend that they would not immediately spin 180[sup]o[/sup] if the political parties were reversed. You are trying the old dodge - anyone who disagrees with the groupthink is trolling. I do actually believe this is laughable. So I laugh at it. Feel free to report my post, if you actually believe it is trolling. It isn’t, so nothing will be done. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Yaxche](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8dc957/32.png) [@Yaxche](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yaxche)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-heckled-obama-during-his-address-to-congress/509496/152 "2009-09-10T13:24:39Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Far as I can tell, the Republicans have realized that, since they’re the minority, they get to act like it. But since they have so little practice with it, they’re going waaaaaay over the top and making fools of themselves. Meanwhile, the Democrats haven’t realized they’re in the majority yet, so they’re still acting like they’re not in control. So we have the people who usually take the role of responsible adult acting like whiny, bitchy children and the people who usually take the role of rebellious teenager still acting like rebellious teenagers who have no idea how to care for whiny, bitchy children. I know this comment was a little back in the thread, but this may be the most spot on summary I’ve heard of the situation. Bravo, sir. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-heckled-obama-during-his-address-to-congress/509496/153 "2009-09-10T13:26:05Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Actually, it’s option #3 - I am making fun of your position. I derive amusement from mocking the outrage of people who pretend that they would not immediately spin 180[sup]o[/sup] if the political parties were reversed. > > You are trying the old dodge - anyone who disagrees with the groupthink is trolling. > > I do actually believe this is laughable. So I laugh at it. > > Feel free to report my post, if you actually believe it is trolling. It isn’t, so nothing will be done. > > Regards, > Shodan You do walk a fine line, I’ll give you that. It’s just that many conservatives are \*actually \*as stupid as you pretend to be. So it’s hard to make a case for trolling. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-heckled-obama-during-his-address-to-congress/509496/154 "2009-09-10T13:26:20Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Actually, it’s option #3 - I am making fun of your position. I derive amusement from mocking the outrage of people who pretend that they would not immediately spin 180[sup]o[/sup] if the political parties were reversed. Yes, the Democrats would definitely heckle the President on the floor of the Senate if he were a Republican and they were in the minority. Oh wait… ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-heckled-obama-during-his-address-to-congress/509496/155 "2009-09-10T13:27:05Z")
What irks me, besides the obvious lack of common decorum on Rep. Wilson’s part, is his using the word “disagreement” in his apology. A genuine DISAGREEMENT over some proposal would be okay…but you can’t DISAGREE about a clear _fact_, like what is or is not in some proposed legislation. If he had shouted “You lie!” when Obama made any of his several points about what his plan will or will not _cost_, well okay, not exactly a lie, but at least a point on which you can _disagree_. But _this_? ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-heckled-obama-during-his-address-to-congress/509496/156 "2009-09-10T13:29:41Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Actually, it’s option #3 - I am making fun of your position. I derive amusement from mocking the outrage of people who pretend that they would not immediately spin 180[sup]o[/sup] if the political parties were reversed. Go fuck yourself, buddy. You know nothing about me or my opinions; you’re too wrapped up in yourself to notice what people are saying. If some Democratic senator at some point screamed “liar!” at a Presidential address during the Bush administration (or any Republican administration, or any administration), let me know about it. I’ll happily, and cheerfully, call him/her a douchebag and a national disgrace right along with Mr. Wilson - for exactly the same reasons. > [@](#): > > You are trying the old dodge - anyone who disagrees with the groupthink is trolling. Simple question, yes or no answer: do you believe that my objection to Mr. Wilson’s actions is based primarily on the fact that he “questioned” Barack Obama, whom I worship? If “yes,” then you’re an idiot. If “no,” then why did you write a post characterizing it as such? ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-heckled-obama-during-his-address-to-congress/509496/157 "2009-09-10T13:31:53Z")
Oh, and I couldn’t care less about _reporting_ you for trolling. I’ve gotten a bit beyond playing “I’m not touching you” games. I know what you are and you know what you are. Who gives a damn what a moderator thinks about it? ---
**Author:** ![corkboard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@corkboard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/corkboard)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-heckled-obama-during-his-address-to-congress/509496/158 "2009-09-10T13:33:57Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > What irks me, besides the obvious lack of common decorum on Rep. Wilson’s part, is his using the word “disagreement” in his apology. A genuine DISAGREEMENT over some proposal would be okay…but you can’t DISAGREE about a clear _fact_, like what is or is not in some proposed legislation. If he had shouted “You lie!” when Obama made any of his several points about what his plan will or will not _cost_, well okay, not exactly a lie, but at least a point on which you can _disagree_. But _this_? Thank you. That little detail has been bugging me since it happened, and I was making my way through the thread planning a post similar to yours. Well said. ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-heckled-obama-during-his-address-to-congress/509496/159 "2009-09-10T13:35:09Z")
It probably won’t matter one whit to the liberal moonbats, but apparently the Dems booed Bush during his speech to Congress in 2005: [http://mediamatters.org/research/200502040014](http://mediamatters.org/research/200502040014) Here’s what John Roberts of CBS News said on 2/2/05: “At a couple points in this address, it looked more like the British Parliament than the United States Congress. **I’ve never heard the minority party shout at the president during the State of the Union address**.” Gee, I wonder how many Democrats apologized for their behavior back then…hmm. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-heckled-obama-during-his-address-to-congress/509496/160 "2009-09-10T13:44:08Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > Gee, I wonder how many Democrats apologized for their behavior back then…hmm. They all should have. Is there a point lurking in there somewhere? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-heckled-obama-during-his-address-to-congress/509496.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-heckled-obama-during-his-address-to-congress/509496.md?page=9)