# Who impacted society more: Elvis or The Beatles? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 15, 2006, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-impacted-society-more-elvis-or-the-beatles/372895 "2006-09-15T22:42:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2006, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-impacted-society-more-elvis-or-the-beatles/372895/21 "2006-09-16T13:21:40Z")
My reply wouldn’t look so deriviative if it was four minutes faster. Curse you, Annie. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2006, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-impacted-society-more-elvis-or-the-beatles/372895/22 "2006-09-16T15:40:42Z")
[QUOTE=MrDibble] Beatles. If Elvis hadn’t been the first big star, it’d have been one of his contemporaries like JL Lewis or Holly. [/QUOTE] I gotta disagree with this. I was at just the right age when Elvis hit, and nobody else had the kind of impact on teenagers that he did. Jerry Lee and Buddy Holly were extremely talented and they generated some excitement, but they didn’t have Elvis’s charisma. Elvis was in a class all his own. We could have freaked out over those other guys, but we didn’t. We wouldn’t have, even if Elvis hadn’t existed. It was a whole different thing, what Elvis did to us. His good looks had a lot to do with it. Beautiful man. As for the OP, I think their impact was equal but different. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Controvert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dec6dc/32.png) [@The\_Controvert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Controvert)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2006, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-impacted-society-more-elvis-or-the-beatles/372895/23 "2006-09-16T15:51:38Z")
Well, according to the Straight Dope search function, the Beatles apparently impacted _Cafe Society_ more than Elvis: 31 Threads containing ‘elvis’ in Cafe Society vs. 92 Threads containing ‘beatles’ in Cafe Society (includes this thread) ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2006, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-impacted-society-more-elvis-or-the-beatles/372895/24 "2006-09-16T15:55:25Z")
The Beatles came from England, where Cliff Richard and Buddy Holly were more influential than Elvis. But nobody was as influential worldwide than the Beatles. ---
**Author:** ![Walter\_Windchill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Walter\_Windchill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walter_Windchill)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2006, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-impacted-society-more-elvis-or-the-beatles/372895/25 "2006-09-16T16:20:49Z")
Elvis is bigger in the American South, but world-wide I’d have to agree that the Beatles were a bigger influence on culture and music. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2006, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-impacted-society-more-elvis-or-the-beatles/372895/26 "2006-09-16T16:48:55Z")
Elvis was only following in the footsteps of Frank Sinatra – same big stardom, same youth culture. It’s clear his singing style comes from Bing Crosby and Dean Martin, just with a rock beat. He was certainly the biggest star of the early rock era, but not all that innovative – much of his style came from imitation. The Beatles were different. While Elvis was riding the wave of rock 'n roll, when the Beatles came along, folk music was the music of the intelligent teenager or college student. Rock was struggling. Take a look at the top songs of 1963: “Limbo Rock,” “Go Away Little Girl,” “End of the World,” “Blue Velvet,” “Telstar,” “I Will Follow Him,” “Rhythm of the Rain,” “Can’t Get Used to Loving You,” “Fingertips,” and “Return to Sender.” Only the Elvis song is play with any regularity in oldies stations and it was his only song in the top 50 that songs that year. "Go Away Little Girl, “Fingertips” and “Blue Velvet” get some airplay, but the rest are forgotten. Now look at 1964: “I Wan to Hold Your Hand,” “She Loves You,” “Hello Dolly,” “Oh, Pretty Woman,” “I Get Around,” “Louie Louie,” “My Guy,” “Blue Velvet” (again), “Glad All Over,” and “Everybody Loves Somebody.” Only the last has vanished from the airwaves, though "Hello Dolly is rarely played (when people want a Louis Armstrong song of the period, they go with “It’s a Wonderful World.” Note that three of the top ten are either the Beatles, or the British invasion, and the list is dominated by songs with a harder beat that the Beatles made acceptable. The Beatles also introduced the singer/songwriter to rock (Bob Dylan introduced it to folk) and made the genre intellectually respectable. Before the Beatles only a handful of rock musicians wrote their own songs (Beach Boys, Buddy Holly, Jerry Lee Lewis, etc.). After the Beatles, it was expected. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2006, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-impacted-society-more-elvis-or-the-beatles/372895/27 "2006-09-16T16:49:07Z")
[QUOTE=Hamlet] He was the “right” person, in that he was white. When one of the biggest thing leading to your success is the color of your skin, it’s hard for me to give you credit. As he said: ""The colored folks been singing it and playing it just like I’m doin’ now, man, for more years than I know. They played it like that in their shanties and in their juke joints and nobody paid it no mind 'til I goosed it up. I got it from them. Down in Tupelo, Mississippi, I used to hear old Arthur Crudup bang his box the way I do now and I said if I ever got to a place I could feel all old Arthur felt, I’d be a music man like nobody ever saw. " [/QUOTE] You’re drastically underestimating The King’s charisma. You could not have taken a random Mississippi bluesman, painted him white, and made him half as big as Elvis. He did not “steal” black music. He played the music he knew and loved from when he was growing up. Saying he wasn’t allowed to do that just because he was white is just as racist as many people claim his stardom was. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2006, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-impacted-society-more-elvis-or-the-beatles/372895/28 "2006-09-16T17:12:19Z")
Presley absolutely. He basically created the platform for the Beatles to excel on. He’s probably the most influential entertainer in history or at least up there. His sales were utterly phenomenal and his affect on culture and even the economy of the western world should not be underestimated. He has a style, charisma and massive talent that created an entire industry. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2006, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-impacted-society-more-elvis-or-the-beatles/372895/29 "2006-09-16T17:16:02Z")
[QUOTE=MrDibble] Beatles. If Elvis hadn’t been the first big star, it’d have been one of his contemporaries like JL Lewis or Holly. With due respect to the opinion of Lennon, I think the Beatles owe a lot more to skiffle, black bluesmen and Chuck Berry than they do to Elvis. I think Lennon was more referring to the notion of stardom. [/QUOTE] I doubt it. Presley was a lot bigger than either and a lot more versitile than either. Further, Presley pretty much merged country and blues to create a totally new sound. So no, Lennon was refering to Preley’s music as he has gone on record specifically about his music, not his stardom. Also, Presley predated Lewis. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2006, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-impacted-society-more-elvis-or-the-beatles/372895/30 "2006-09-16T17:17:53Z")
And to say he merely imitaded Sinatra et al shows a very basic ignorance of his music. Just listen to the Sun Recordings from 54 and 55 and then show me anything Crosby etc. has done that even came close. You can’t and you won’t. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2006, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-impacted-society-more-elvis-or-the-beatles/372895/31 "2006-09-16T17:52:12Z")
Gotta go with the King. Whatever other influences Elvis had for his music, he successfully merged both black and white music during a racially-charged decade _and there were no hard feelings._ Elvis opened the door for the Chuck Berrys and the Little Richards. From what I can read about it, BB King and Little Richard sincerely liked the guy — They didn’t consider Elvis a marauder out to steal black music; he was genuinely polite and charismatic about it. He made “black music” acceptable when, for most of the country, blacks had no opportunity to be popular at anything. Did the Beatles deal with that? Were the Beatles accused of racism, or taken out of airplay because they “sounded black?” Were the Beatles ever shunted to alternate radio stations because of racism? Elvis also made it _possible_ to merge music and sex, also during that same extremely conservative decade. Communities passed laws to prevent Elvis from gyrating on stage. They filmed him from the waist up because his “devil n\*\*\*\*r music” was going to corrupt the nation’s youth. Did anybody pass laws against the Beatles? Make it illegal to have long hair? Can’t think of any instances, myself, though I could be wrong. Elvis also made it possible to become popular with the teen and pre-teen crowd. He practically _invented_ the youth market for music — and after he came back from his stint in the Army, he made it possible to be popular with older (and more conservative) listeners _at the same time._ I freely grant that the Beatles have had a great deal more influence on _music_ than Elvis did, given that the Beatles were present during a revolution of recording equipment techniques; and though the Beatles didn’t invent a lot of those techniques themselves or pioneer them, they did popularize a lot of new ways of making music. Elvis had much more effect on culture, in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2006, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-impacted-society-more-elvis-or-the-beatles/372895/32 "2006-09-16T18:02:00Z")
Elvis changed everything. It was a watershed moment. Music,hair,attitude. The Beetles changed everything.Music, hair, attitude. For their times they were botth huge and influential. The Beetles changed away from the rock and roll that Elvis popularized. Record sales dont translate through time. Larger audience and spending cash grew over time. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2006, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-impacted-society-more-elvis-or-the-beatles/372895/33 "2006-09-16T19:22:26Z")
[QUOTE=diggleblop] Why is this not a debate? There are too many moderators here with too many opinions. If this isn’t a debate, I don’t know what is. I’m getting tired of my shit being moved all over this website. I’m sorry, I’m a paying customer, I have a right to speak my mind if you don’t like it. [/QUOTE] Hey **Digglebop,** don’t sweat it when your threads get moved. It happens all the time, and generally no one thinks any less of you when it happens, especially when you’re new to the boards. There is, in fact, an ambiguity in the way the board classifications are phrased. In practice, it was worked out as follows: _any_ thread which deals with things like music, food, tv, books, etc, goes in Cafe Society. It doesn’t matter if the thread could also fit under the descriptions that have been given for other boards–if it has to do with the kinds of things listed under Cafe Society’s description, then it goes into the Cafe Society board. So, your post was indeed meant to initiate a debate, but this does not mean it goes in Great Debates. Since the debate is about pop music, it turns out, the thread goes in CS instead. -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2006, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-impacted-society-more-elvis-or-the-beatles/372895/34 "2006-09-16T19:30:23Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock] especially when you’re new to the boards. [/QUOTE] I thought you were newer here than you are. Still, it’s not that big a deal. Threads get moved. We all move on. -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![Walter\_Windchill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Walter\_Windchill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walter_Windchill)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2006, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-impacted-society-more-elvis-or-the-beatles/372895/35 "2006-09-16T19:31:59Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] Elvis changed everything. It was a watershed moment. Music,hair,attitude. The Beetles changed everything.Music, hair, attitude. For their times they were botth huge and influential. The Beetles changed away from the rock and roll that Elvis popularized. Record sales dont translate through time. Larger audience and spending cash grew over time. [/QUOTE] You kind of lose your air of authority when you spell it “Beetles.” ---
**Author:** ![Operation\_Ripper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/34f0e0/32.png) [@Operation\_Ripper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Operation_Ripper)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2006, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-impacted-society-more-elvis-or-the-beatles/372895/36 "2006-09-16T20:29:06Z")
[Bubbahotep](http://imdb.com/title/tt0281686/), when was the last time someone did something like this with the Beatles? Case closed! ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2006, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-impacted-society-more-elvis-or-the-beatles/372895/37 "2006-09-16T21:03:12Z")
The Beatles. We’re talking about changing the culture, not just changing music. The Beatles helped drive the counterculture, the flower power era, and in general the hippie movement. When the Beatles started, kids still wore short hair and were conservative. Within five years, their hair was on their shoulders, they were experimenting with drugs, and in general rebelling against their parents and society in a way that really hadn’t been happening up until that point. The Beatles weren’t the sole influence, of course, but they rode the crest of the wave and became symbols for all of it. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2006, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-impacted-society-more-elvis-or-the-beatles/372895/38 "2006-09-16T22:49:00Z")
I am surprised that this discussion hasn’t centered on a basic point: that the Beatles were rooted in their love of Elvis. How many times did they discuss their idolization of The King and how it - along with their love of so many other American rockers - shaped them. So without Elvis, there would be no Beatles in the way we know them and their music. For me, while Elvis came first and therefore leads to anything else, he has to be the ultimate answer. But from a “standing on the shoulders of giants” basis, the Beatles win, easily. For three key reasons: - The cultural impact - was far more profound given the overal societal context - Elvis was Eisenhower 50’s at his peak; the Beatles were post-Kennedy-assassination, Boomers-come-of-age-60’s and everything changed in a way not available to 50’s America. - The music - more varied, more inventive and exploratory. Elvis was first, which clearly matters - but did two things well: up-tempo rockers and slower ballads and Gospel. The Beatles started with rock and pop but pushed far more boundaries and their music remain contemporary even today in a ways that Elvis’ doesn’t - The Creative Arc - Elvis didn’t evolve the way that the Beatles did. Their journey in and of itself - and in such a short time - marked them and elevated rock to an art form in a way that Elvis’ wasn’t recognized as until after he had been around for quite some time. His music was novel and rebellious, but it was simply regarded as commercial pop at the time, to my knowledge. Think out loud for a bit… ---
**Author:** ![Walter\_Windchill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Walter\_Windchill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walter_Windchill)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2006, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-impacted-society-more-elvis-or-the-beatles/372895/39 "2006-09-16T22:53:47Z")
From everything I’ve read about the Beatles, they were much bigger fans of Buddy Holly and Little Richard than of Mr. Presley. Heck, their name is derived from “The Crickets.” ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2006, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-impacted-society-more-elvis-or-the-beatles/372895/40 "2006-09-16T23:31:50Z")
[QUOTE=Walter Windchill] From everything I’ve read about the Beatles, they were much bigger fans of Buddy Holly and Little Richard than of Mr. Presley. Heck, their name is derived from “The Crickets.” [/QUOTE] > [@](#): > > “Elvis was religion to me” John Lennon from: [http://www.elvispresleynews.com/JohnLennon.html](http://www.elvispresleynews.com/JohnLennon.html) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-impacted-society-more-elvis-or-the-beatles/372895.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-impacted-society-more-elvis-or-the-beatles/372895.md?page=3)