# Who, in all of human history, has had the greatest impact upon modern society? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 17, 2012, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-in-all-of-human-history-has-had-the-greatest-impact-upon-modern-society/622264 "2012-05-17T23:09:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-in-all-of-human-history-has-had-the-greatest-impact-upon-modern-society/622264/81 "2012-05-19T01:22:52Z")
Good point - however, if not Newton then Leibniz; if not Darwin then Wallace; if not Einstein then ----- it was the age of physics. So, are there individuals who uniquely changed the path of history in a way that impacts us today? I still stick with Bonacci because he combined Hindu/Arabic notation with decimal place value and then published his procedures. That is the underpinning of modern science. Crane ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-in-all-of-human-history-has-had-the-greatest-impact-upon-modern-society/622264/82 "2012-05-19T04:02:29Z")
> [@Raygun99](#): > > [Thomas\_Midgley,\_Jr.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Midgley,_Jr.), the inventor of CFCs and tetraethyllead. I’m a day late to claim this as my own, so I’ll agree with you on this one. However, he did not invent tetraethyllead, he discovered its use as a gasoline additive, which makes him even more sinister when you realize that he poisoned himself intentionally to prove that TEL wasn’t toxic to humans. ---
**Author:** ![Randvek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a6a055/32.png) [@Randvek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randvek)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-in-all-of-human-history-has-had-the-greatest-impact-upon-modern-society/622264/83 "2012-05-19T04:25:00Z")
I am the most important man in history. Why, without me, none of you would exist. You best hope that I keep dreaming. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-in-all-of-human-history-has-had-the-greatest-impact-upon-modern-society/622264/84 "2012-05-19T04:58:16Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > However, he did not invent tetraethyllead, he discovered its use as a gasoline additive, which makes him even more sinister when you realize that he poisoned himself intentionally to prove that TEL wasn’t toxic to humans. Yeah…pretty fucked up. One of the two guys I would nominate for Evil Scientist Poster Boy (the other being [Harry Harlow](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Harlow#Pit_of_despair) who did psychological tests on monkeys which included the Pit of Despair [his term for it] and a rape machine [kidjanot]). ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-in-all-of-human-history-has-had-the-greatest-impact-upon-modern-society/622264/85 "2012-05-19T07:04:19Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Crediting Gutenberg with the print revolution is like crediting Steve Jobs for the smart phone. In the epic thread, we speculated that Gutenberg may have moved the ball by 50 years. There were rather fewer tinkerers back then, and the print shop required a number components to be brought together. Also remember that the industrial R&D department is a fairly recent innovation, provided to us by Edison. Along these counterfactual lines, Aristotle might stand above all others as he was the first to apply a _systematic_ treatment to knowledge. The approach seems obvious to us now, but it couldn’t have been back then as he apparently was the first. Compare him with the mysticism of Pythagoras. And AFAIK, there’s no comparable Aristotle in other isolated cultures. (All that said, my knowledge of the Ancients is pretty spotty and I would be happy to be corrected.) **gamerunknown** : No irony. The Koran is a great work of literature, whether or not it was dictated by the Creator. ---
**Author:** ![Mikeisskeptical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@Mikeisskeptical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mikeisskeptical)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-in-all-of-human-history-has-had-the-greatest-impact-upon-modern-society/622264/86 "2012-05-19T07:43:13Z")
The OP asks about who has had the biggest impact on _modern_ society, so relatively recent geniuses don’t really have a fair chance of inclusion. If we were to fast forward for a few centuries I think we might see Dawin near the top if the list along with some of the pioneers of computer technology. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-in-all-of-human-history-has-had-the-greatest-impact-upon-modern-society/622264/87 "2012-05-19T08:10:29Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > In the epic thread, we speculated that Gutenberg may have moved the ball by 50 years. The invention of paper can be considered centuries ahead of its time due to simple evidence: despite seeing Chinese paper, China’s neighbors were unable to duplicate the recipe for many centuries. The reason Ts’ai Lun, inventor of paper, wasn’t one of the runaway favorites in the epic thread is that some assumed he might be semi-mythical. Newton’s contributions seem game-changing by the fact that 70 years after he conceived his Laws of Motion, the contradictory theories of Descartes et al still had wide acceptance, at least until a famous 1736 expedition to measure the shape of the Earth. [Biographies like this one are a good source](http://www-history.mcs.st-and.ac.uk/Biographies/Maupertuis.html) for synopses of mathematicians. I was bemused to note a cryptic reference in that one: > [@](#): > > Rather strangely Maupertuis brought back with him two native girls from Finland. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-in-all-of-human-history-has-had-the-greatest-impact-upon-modern-society/622264/88 "2012-05-19T08:15:50Z")
One can make a strong case for this guy: > **[Norman Borlaug](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Borlaug)** > > Norman Ernest Borlaug (/ˈbɔːrlɔːɡ/; March 25, 1914 – September 12, 2009) was an American agronomist who led initiatives worldwide that contributed to the extensive increases in agricultural production termed the Green Revolution. Borlaug was awarded multiple honors for his work, including the Nobel Peace Prize, the Presidential Medal of Freedom and the Congressional Gold Medal. > Borlaug received his B.S. in forestry in 1937 and PhD in plant pathology and genetics from the University of Minnesot... His ideas likely saved about a billion lives. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-in-all-of-human-history-has-had-the-greatest-impact-upon-modern-society/622264/89 "2012-05-19T10:40:02Z")
> [@Measure for Measure](#): > > The Koran is a great work of literature But Muhammad is widely assumed to be illiterate. ---
**Author:** ![phxjcc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8491ac/32.png) [@phxjcc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phxjcc)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-in-all-of-human-history-has-had-the-greatest-impact-upon-modern-society/622264/90 "2012-05-19T10:47:49Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > They’re all trumped by Zorh, who invented bashing people over the head with a big rock. No, it was Narf, who discovered how to make steel, allowing Old World-ers to conquer New World-ers. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-in-all-of-human-history-has-had-the-greatest-impact-upon-modern-society/622264/91 "2012-05-19T11:44:55Z")
What about Apollo Creed for single-handedly building the rocket and flying to the moon. Anyway, I’m voting for Gary Gygax. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-in-all-of-human-history-has-had-the-greatest-impact-upon-modern-society/622264/92 "2012-05-19T12:48:02Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > One can make a strong case for this guy: > [Norman Borlaug - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Borlaug) > > His ideas likely saved about a billion lives. :eek: Hey, you know who else had a nifty idea? Stanislav Petrov. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-in-all-of-human-history-has-had-the-greatest-impact-upon-modern-society/622264/93 "2012-05-19T14:05:26Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Along these counterfactual lines, Aristotle might stand above all others as he was the first to apply a _systematic_ treatment to knowledge. The approach seems obvious to us now, but it couldn’t have been back then as he apparently was the first. Compare him with the mysticism of Pythagoras. And AFAIK, there’s no comparable Aristotle in other isolated cultures. (All that said, my knowledge of the Ancients is pretty spotty and I would be happy to be corrected.) This is why I’m sticking with Aristotle. The man actually taught us how to \*think. \*He’s the guy whose shoulders all the Gutenbergs and Newtons and Galileos were standing on. And most importantly: Go back and kill Aristotle, and it’s damn unlikely someone else would have duplicated his accomplishments within centuries, if ever. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-in-all-of-human-history-has-had-the-greatest-impact-upon-modern-society/622264/94 "2012-05-19T14:43:12Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > This is why I’m sticking with Aristotle. The man actually taught us how to \*think. \*He’s the guy whose shoulders all the Gutenbergs and Newtons and Galileos were standing on. And most importantly: Go back and kill Aristotle, and it’s damn unlikely someone else would have duplicated his accomplishments within centuries, if ever. One of the arguments I used in the game thread was uniqueness: I don’t know of any “Aristotles” in any other cultural tradition. You can find inventors, artists, leaders, etc… but as far as I know (and that’s likely not very far at all) there has been only one person who conceived of a rationalist-empirical approach to knowledge\* in any tradition of civilization… and made it stick. \*No matter how flawed his application - c’mon, the guy was trying to figure this stuff out from a knowledge base of almost nothing. And it’s not Ari’s fault that he was as stultifyingly idealized to the degree he was thousands of years after his death. It’s like blaming Mohammed for 9/11. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-in-all-of-human-history-has-had-the-greatest-impact-upon-modern-society/622264/95 "2012-05-19T14:43:47Z")
Didn’t Aristotle rely on the syllogism and contempt for untested suppositions inculcated on him by Socrates though? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-in-all-of-human-history-has-had-the-greatest-impact-upon-modern-society/622264/96 "2012-05-19T14:48:06Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > But you cannot make that argument - it’s just fiction to assume that things would be the same if Newton/Gutenberg/Einstein hadn’t existed. I can easily make the argument that had Augustus not lived, Roman history would’ve evolved mostly the same way because Augustus was just part of a larger historical impulse towards Roman dominance. And who can argue differently? But you also have to prove it would be different, that getting rid of one person won’t result in another taking their place. And, yes, that is doable, atleast to some extent. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-in-all-of-human-history-has-had-the-greatest-impact-upon-modern-society/622264/97 "2012-05-19T14:49:39Z")
Yes, but in the game thread (which I referred to), Socrates wasn’t an option. 😉 Regardless, even assuming it’s “Socrates”, that just puts a different name on the question. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-in-all-of-human-history-has-had-the-greatest-impact-upon-modern-society/622264/98 "2012-05-19T17:37:21Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > But you cannot make that argument - it’s just fiction to assume that things would be largely the same if Newton/Gutenberg/Einstein hadn’t existed. I can easily make the argument that had Augustus not lived, Roman history would’ve evolved mostly the same way because Augustus was just part of a larger historical impulse towards Roman dominance. And who can argue differently with any greater authority? Well, obviously this is all just silly internet arguing, no one can prove anything. And I hope you don’t take anything I’m saying as in any way dissing science or scientists. But, that said… once science and rational thought exist (and to the extent that Aristotle invented science and rational thought, he’s a great candidate for this), it’s almost guaranteed that eventually someone is going to come along who is smart enough, and has enough shoulders to stand on, that he or she will come up with (whatever invention or idea is in question). Whereas with pivotal military/political figures, that’s not at all the case. If nothing else, there’s the issue of time windows. If Newton hadn’t invented calculus when he did, or if Darwin hadn’t formulated the theory of Evolution when he did, there’s absolutely no reason someone else couldn’t have done the same thing 6 months, or 1 year, or 5 years, or 50 years later. Granted, the further you push things back the more different our world looks now, but the window for discovering those things never closes. Whereas, if Augustus doesn’t form the Roman Empire when he does, maybe someone comes along the next year and does it… but someone can’t come along 50 years later, or likely even 10 years later, and do the same thing, because political sea changes like that depend on a particular set of circumstances that only last for a short while, in a way that inventions and scientific breakthroughs don’t. (Granted, there are times and places where the intellectual atmosphere of the day makes it easier for intellectual advancement to occur… but it will ALWAYS be possible to invent calculus, eventually…) ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-in-all-of-human-history-has-had-the-greatest-impact-upon-modern-society/622264/99 "2012-05-19T18:34:55Z")
(In rough order): Jesus, Aristotle, Sir Isaac Newton, Martin Luther, Louis Pasteur, and Gavrilo Princep. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-in-all-of-human-history-has-had-the-greatest-impact-upon-modern-society/622264/100 "2012-05-19T18:38:39Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > One of the arguments I used in the game thread was uniqueness: I don’t know of any “Aristotles” in any other cultural tradition. You can find inventors, artists, leaders, etc… but as far as I know (and that’s likely not very far at all) there has been only one person who conceived of a rationalist-empirical approach to knowledge\* in any tradition of civilization… and made it stick. > > \*No matter how flawed his application - c’mon, the guy was trying to figure this stuff out from a knowledge base of almost nothing. And it’s not Ari’s fault that he was as stultifyingly idealized to the degree he was thousands of years after his death. It’s like blaming Mohammed for 9/11. I agree with a lot of what you say here, but although Aristotle was a great genius, he was not, in most respects, a radically original thinker. His main achievement was to evaluate, synthesize, and systematize the ideas that had developed from the approximately two and a half centuries of the Greek philosophical tradition that had preceded him. Systematizing it was no mean feat, he was working on a huge mess of contradictory, conflicting, and sometimes absurd claims, speculations and arguments, but he did not originate the “rationalist-empirical” (or, more basic I think, naturalistic and critical) approach to knowledge that characterizes both Greek philosophy and its heir and descendant, modern science. The originator of Greek philosophy, and thus the tradition of naturalistic (as opposed to supernaturalistic) and critical thinking that Aristotle passed on to future ages was Thales (or, arguably, his successor and first insightful critic, Anaximander). That is why, upthread, I suggested Thales. Without Thales, no modern science. He really does seem to have instigated a radical change in human ways of thinking, and we can put a name and a fairly precise date on him (unlike Ugg who invented the first stone tool, or Zod who tamed fire, or Gorb who invented agriculture, or whoever). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-in-all-of-human-history-has-had-the-greatest-impact-upon-modern-society/622264.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-in-all-of-human-history-has-had-the-greatest-impact-upon-modern-society/622264.md?page=6)