# Who invented silent letters? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 26, 2013, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-invented-silent-letters/659418 "2013-05-26T18:08:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2013, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-invented-silent-letters/659418/1 "2013-05-26T18:08:11Z")
This question’s been bugging me for quite some time. If I’m not mistaken, human language was spoken long before it was written down, right? So when writing was first invented, with different symbols created to indicate how each word sounds, who in god’s green earth decided that there should be letters which are only written, not spoken? Words like “dime”, “knife”, “light” – well, I suppose the silent “e” makes minor sense, since it influences the sound of the preceding vowel. But in that case, why not invent separate and distinct letters for different vowel sounds? My fingers are nimble, I can handle a keyboard with 42 letters instead of 26. And what’s up with non-standard spellings like “photo” or “caution” – where did those come from? And do we really need the letter “C”? Sometimes it sounds like an “s”, sometimes a “k”. Absolutely extraneous. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2013, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-invented-silent-letters/659418/2 "2013-05-26T18:29:58Z")
Most silent letters were originally pronounced. Over the centuries, that was dropped. Thus “knife” was pronounced (roughly) k-neef-eh. “Light” was “leet,” the representing a sound that’s no longer in the language (like the German “ach.”) There are also many explanations for other changes, since it depends on the history of the word. Essentially, though, pronunciation changes over time, and adjusting the word to match the new pronunciation (and who’s pronunciation – it is “to-may-to” or “to-mah-tol”) would create problems, making older works unreadable. The spelling always reflects the pronunciation when the word entered the language. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2013, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-invented-silent-letters/659418/3 "2013-05-26T18:35:53Z")
I should mention that “photo” is derived from a Greek work that began with their “phi”; it was transliterated into “ph” to indicate its origins (and was done by people who knew Greek well). ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2013, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-invented-silent-letters/659418/4 "2013-05-26T18:38:35Z")
Those letter were originally pronounced, several centuries ago, but atrophied through he laziness/efficiency of speakers over the years. If you listen carefully to French songs, you’ll hear all those silent final -e and -re that everyday spoken French drops off. ---
**Author:** ![gracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@gracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gracer)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2013, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-invented-silent-letters/659418/5 "2013-05-26T18:44:04Z")
Some languages change their spelling after a while, to reflect changes in pronunciation. This has its own problems: new spelling to learn (personal trauma here!), and older texts are not as easy to read. On the other hand, learning to read English a little harder at first, because none of the spelling seems to make sense. Sometimes it makes sense if you know the Dutch word, it is often similar to the way it used to be pronounced in English. The above “light” is a good example, the Dutch pronounce it the way it is written in English, with the harsh, throaty “g”. ---
**Author:** ![Arrogance\_Ex\_Machina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/arrogance_ex_machina/32/192_2.png) [@Arrogance\_Ex\_Machina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arrogance_Ex_Machina)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2013, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-invented-silent-letters/659418/6 "2013-05-26T18:45:29Z")
You could just switch to speaking Finnish. We don’t use “C”, there’s basically no silent letters and every time one of us sees a “How do you pronounce \?” thread we can just point and laugh. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![moriah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b2d939/32.png) [@moriah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moriah)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-invented-silent-letters/659418/7 "2013-05-26T18:57:48Z")
\*\*[Raymond Luxury Yacht](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyQvjKqXA0Y) \*\* ---
**Author:** ![gracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@gracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gracer)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2013, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-invented-silent-letters/659418/8 "2013-05-26T19:00:31Z")
> [@Arrogance\_Ex\_Machina](#): > > You could just switch to speaking Finnish. Don’t fall for this! It’s a trap! They make it sound nice and easy and then… BAM! It’s actually an impossible language. And then they all stand around and rub their hands together and laugh. Just kidding **Arrogance Ex Machina** , I’m sure it’s a beautiful language, but it looks really hard. And it had way too many "y"s to be allowed. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2013, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-invented-silent-letters/659418/9 "2013-05-26T19:40:10Z")
> [@Arrogance\_Ex\_Machina](#): > > You could just switch to speaking Finnish. We don’t use “C”, there’s basically no silent letters and every time one of us sees a “How do you pronounce \?” thread we can just point and laugh. 😉 Yeah right, at least English isn’t full of doubled vowels, **with umlauts!** ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2013, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-invented-silent-letters/659418/10 "2013-05-26T19:41:00Z")
> [@Arrogance\_Ex\_Machina](#): > > You could just switch to speaking Finnish. Actually, what inspired this question was looking at a map of Polish cities, with names like “Szczecin” and thinking, “Geez, you crazy Poles use way too many consonants! Please, trim a few.” But then I realized we English speakers aren’t much better. > [@gracer](#): > > …and older texts are not as easy to read. How old is old, though? The works of Shakespeare are nearly impenetrable to modern readers, yet the actual pronunciation hasn’t changed that much since Elizabethan times, I think. ---
**Author:** ![gracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@gracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gracer)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2013, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-invented-silent-letters/659418/11 "2013-05-26T20:14:43Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > How old is old, though? The works of Shakespeare are nearly impenetrable to modern readers, yet the actual pronunciation hasn’t changed that much since Elizabethan times, I think. If you go that far back in languages that change their spelling on purpose you end up with something very different. Comparatively, English doesn’t look as bad. Spelling was even less standardised then, and they had some different words because they had different _stuff_, but everything is basically the same. In Dutch, since I was a kid, they’ve been changing the spelling. “Aktie” became “actie”, “zee-eend” to “zeeënd” (I think, it’s confusing, and I forget). The spelling is officially changed every decade, so it matches pronunciation. These changes add up over the years. ---
**Author:** ![EmilyG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/emilyg/32/364_2.png) [@EmilyG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmilyG)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2013, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-invented-silent-letters/659418/12 "2013-05-26T20:17:25Z")
> [@Arrogance\_Ex\_Machina](#): > > You could just switch to speaking Finnish. We don’t use “C”, there’s basically no silent letters and every time one of us sees a “How do you pronounce \?” thread we can just point and laugh. 😉 Good username/post combo. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2013, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-invented-silent-letters/659418/13 "2013-05-26T21:13:23Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > How old is old, though? The works of Shakespeare are nearly impenetrable to modern readers, yet the actual pronunciation hasn’t changed that much since Elizabethan times, I think. Scholars think that it’s changed quite a bit. [Shakespeare’s Accent](http://www.npr.org/blogs/monkeysee/2012/03/24/149160526/shakespeares-accent-how-did-the-bard-really-sound) > [@](#): > > Two-thirds of Shakespeare’s 154 sonnets don’t rhyme anymore. We know that the final couplet in … Sonnet 116 … you know it’s: > > > [@](#): > > > > If this be error and upon me proved, > > > > ``` > > I never writ, nor no man ever loved. > > > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2013, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-invented-silent-letters/659418/14 "2013-05-26T22:15:58Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > How old is old, though? The works of Shakespeare are nearly impenetrable to modern readers, yet the actual pronunciation hasn’t changed that much since Elizabethan times, I think. There’s nothing “impenetrable” about Shakespeare; he was writing in Early Modern English, which differs slightly from current English. Certainly you can discern the words; the only real difference is in the conjugation of verbs and the use of Thou, etc., instead of “you.” But no one has trouble understanding, say Hamlet’s soliloquy. There will be some words that are archaic, but only a relatively small amount. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2013, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-invented-silent-letters/659418/15 "2013-05-26T22:27:11Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > Those letter were originally pronounced, several centuries ago, but atrophied through he laziness/efficiency of speakers over the years. If you listen carefully to French songs, you’ll hear all those silent final -e and -re that everyday spoken French drops off. The French language, in fact, seems to have made an art form of silent letters. It seems that about 1/3 of all letters in the written language are silent in the spoken language. (A friend of mine once snarked that 2/3 of all French words sound alike.) What’s up with _that?_ ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2013, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-invented-silent-letters/659418/16 "2013-05-26T22:33:36Z")
> [@gracer](#): > > Some languages change their spelling after a while, to reflect changes in pronunciation. This has its own problems: new spelling to learn (personal trauma here!), and older texts are not as easy to read. Bear in mind, however, that standardized spelling is a relatively recent invention. As recently as the late 1700’s (late American colonial days), spelling was all over the place. Standardization appears to be an American innovation, spearheaded by early American lexicographers like Noah Webster. William Shakespeare [wrote his own name in many different spellings](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spelling_of_Shakespeare%27s_name), and many other spellings were used over the years until the current one became standard. ---
**Author:** ![Canadjun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@Canadjun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadjun)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2013, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-invented-silent-letters/659418/17 "2013-05-26T22:33:37Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > How old is old, though? The works of Shakespeare are nearly impenetrable to modern readers, yet the actual pronunciation hasn’t changed that much since Elizabethan times, I think. Huh?! Are you sure you aren’t thinking of, perhaps, Chaucer? I found Shakespeare boring when I had to read it, but not hard to understand. Chaucer, on the other hand (swiped from Wikipedia)… ‘Wepyng and waylyng, care and oother sorwe I knowe ynogh, on even and a-morwe,’ Quod the Marchant, ‘and so doon oother mo That wedded been.’ ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2013, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-invented-silent-letters/659418/18 "2013-05-26T22:48:23Z")
> [@Canadjun](#): > > Chaucer, on the other hand (swiped from Wikipedia)… > ‘Wepyng and waylyng, care and oother sorwe > I knowe ynogh, on even and a-morwe,’ > Quod the Marchant, ‘and so doon oother mo > That wedded been.’ Mad Magazine parodied Chaucer (Mad #43, December 1958). Wikipedia discussion at: [Potrzebie - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potrzebie) More complete text found at [http://www.barntowire.com/smf/index.php?topic=51275.10;wap2](http://www.barntowire.com/smf/index.php?topic=51275.10;wap2) > [@](#): > > Whon thot Aprille swithin potrzebie, > The burgid prillie gives one heebie-jeebie. > Do pairdish kanzas sittie harrie truman > Though brillig to the schlepper Alfred Neuman > And bawthid at the norstrug undeserving > Do hark the wallish sparkin welcome irving > It meethid to the mawking swabish crucial > And battingg forth positionne stanley musial… ---
**Author:** ![Mdcastle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/958977/32.png) [@Mdcastle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mdcastle)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2013, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-invented-silent-letters/659418/19 "2013-05-27T00:26:31Z")
The Latin alphabet was a pretty good choice for writing, well Latin. It’s a poor choice for writing English, which is two languages removed from the one it was designed for. But switching to an alphabet optimized for English isn’t going to happen. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2013, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-invented-silent-letters/659418/20 "2013-05-27T00:37:02Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > I should mention that “photo” is derived from a Greek work that began with their “phi”; it was transliterated into “ph” to indicate its origins (and was done by people who knew Greek well). Is there an actual difference in the sound of “ph,” as opposed to “f”? To our ears they’re identical; do we know how the ancient Greeks pronounced it? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-invented-silent-letters/659418.md?page=2)