# Who is Braver: Bush or Osama **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 14, 2004, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-braver-bush-or-osama/274625 "2004-11-14T00:00:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2004, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-braver-bush-or-osama/274625/1 "2004-11-14T00:00:24Z")
Based on [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=286424) recent thread (which seems to have taken a turn for the worse, in sanity’s case) Who is braver? On one hand, we have Bush, who bravely dons his bullet proof vest and isn’t afraid of going after terrorists, whereever they may hide, even if he has to invade a dozen countries and sacrifice a few thousand soldiers and a few hundred thousand civilians to do it. Of course, he is doing this sitting in meeting rooms in the White House. On the other hand, we have Osama, a man who appears to be suffering from a terminal illness, who uses bribes and fundamentalism or plain sneakiness to seek sanctuary in other countries, sending out minions to make hit and run attacks on innocent civilians and military sites. Who is braver? Does it take more cajones to take on the might and power of the sole remaining superpower on the planet with a few thousand fundamentalists, or to risk angering those fundamentalists more by hunting them down, and possibly maybe unlikely be assassinated? Frankly, I think both men are cowards, and their minions are brave. Though I think Osama is a little less cowardly than Bush. He _is_ a little closer to the front lines, and has a lot more firepower aimed at him. I’d buy that Osama is more willing to die for his cause than Bush is (though I guess I wouldn’t be sure if Bush would be willing to die for his cause) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2004, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-braver-bush-or-osama/274625/2 "2004-11-14T00:15:27Z")
Osama. Not even close. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2004, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-braver-bush-or-osama/274625/3 "2004-11-14T00:32:37Z")
Bin Laden. He is the one on the run, with people hunting him (competently or not is another question). He is the one who had a bazillion daisy cutter bombs dropped in his general area. Discalimer: The above statement does not cancel any vitriol and vile abuse I may (and will) heap on him, every chance I get. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2004, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-braver-bush-or-osama/274625/4 "2004-11-14T00:42:06Z")
I’d call it a tie. Osama did send out thugs to murder thousands of innocent civilians. Bush dodged the draft and later dodged out of the NG. Both use their religion to maintain power. Osama can’t show his face in public. Bush can’t listen to dissenting opinion. Both pretty miserable human specimens. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2004, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-braver-bush-or-osama/274625/5 "2004-11-14T01:26:21Z")
Too bad we can’t lock them in a room together. They both deserve each other. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2004, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-braver-bush-or-osama/274625/6 "2004-11-14T01:31:02Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Too bad we can’t lock them in a room together. They both deserve each other. They’d probably end up liking each other… I mean, fundamentalist crazy people who attack countries on a whim… nah, Osama would never have the respect for Bush. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2004, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-braver-bush-or-osama/274625/7 "2004-11-14T02:24:14Z")
Osama easily. Osama gave up a life of wealth and privledge to live in the mountains and put up with constantly being bombed at and shot at since the start of the Afghanistan war up until today. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2004, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-braver-bush-or-osama/274625/8 "2004-11-14T02:33:55Z")
Come to think of it, I need to ammend my OP. Osama didn’t just stand up to the one superpower - he stood up to the other superpower too. Bush stoof up to the Taliban (who were losing power anyway) and a toothless Saddam… The scales are tipping… ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2004, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-braver-bush-or-osama/274625/9 "2004-11-14T02:38:16Z")
We are the second world superpower that Bin Ladin has basically punched in the nose and invited to come try and drop bombs on him. He’s an evil murdering bastard, but he does tend to pick his fights with the biggest guys at the bar. So he’s a brave, murdering bastard. Hopefully it will see him captured and killed this time. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2004, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-braver-bush-or-osama/274625/10 "2004-11-14T02:44:08Z")
> [@Malodorous](#): > > Hopefully it will see him captured and killed this time. Just killed? I say we just hold him until he dies. If we execute him, we stir up a whole keg o’ trouble. ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2004, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-braver-bush-or-osama/274625/11 "2004-11-14T02:58:02Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > I say we just hold him until he dies. If we execute him, we stir up a whole keg o’ trouble. Really? Why? I’m sure even his supporters expect him to be executed if captured, so its not like they’ll be outraged anymore then they already are if it happens. And why I’m sure they’ll hold him as a martyr, it’s not like they’re suffering from a shortage of martyrs these days, so giving them another one probably won’t make much difference. Honestly, I doubt it will be a problem, as I’m sure given any possible chance he’ll see that he’s killed rather then captured. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2004, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-braver-bush-or-osama/274625/12 "2004-11-14T03:18:30Z")
Well, if we execute him, he becomes more of a martyr. If he just dies naturally, they have less fat to chew on. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2004, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-braver-bush-or-osama/274625/13 "2004-11-14T03:21:45Z")
If we hold him for years, he’s “being tortured by Americans” for as long as we keep him. If we execute him via lethal injection, he goes quietly and quickly. Tough choice. I think it’s far more likely that he’ll be captured and disposed of without the public becoming aware at all. Then he just fades away. ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2004, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-braver-bush-or-osama/274625/14 "2004-11-14T03:36:13Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > Well, if we execute him, he becomes more of a martyr. If he just dies naturally, they have less fat to chew on. If we keep him alive, it will be pretty conspicuous that we’re afraid to kill him because of the reprecussions, and I think that would be a greater PR boost then simply executing him. Also, I think there are warrants out for his arrest. We’d legally have to try him if we caught him, and I feel pretty confident that any jury of US citizens would almost certainly give him the death penalty. ---
**Author:** ![ZebraShaSha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/eada6e/32.png) [@ZebraShaSha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZebraShaSha)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2004, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-braver-bush-or-osama/274625/15 "2004-11-14T04:07:15Z")
Some how I do not feel he would never make it to trial. If an American soldier catches him, well, the gun might accidently discharge. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2004, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-braver-bush-or-osama/274625/16 "2004-11-14T04:16:26Z")
> [@ZebraShaSha](#): > > Some how I do not feel he would never make it to trial. If an American soldier catches him, well, the gun might accidently discharge. And if something like that were to happen…if an American soldier were to kill a POW after capture…that soldier would be guilty of murder and would deserve a long stretch in Leavenworth. ---
**Author:** ![Smartass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@Smartass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smartass)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2004, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-braver-bush-or-osama/274625/17 "2004-11-14T04:24:10Z")
> [@malodorous](#): > > So he’s a brave, murdering bastard. Add self-righteous and we are perfectly in synch. > [@Zagadka](#): > > If we execute him, we stir up a whole keg o’ trouble. And that would be different from present situation in what way? I wasn’t aware there was an OBL-supporting keg that wasn’t pretty much already shaken _and_ stirred. What happens when they get upset? -VM ---
**Author:** ![Avenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Avenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avenger)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2004, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-braver-bush-or-osama/274625/18 "2004-11-14T06:46:09Z")
> [@Johnny Bravo](#): > > If we hold him for years, he’s “being tortured by Americans” for as long as we keep him. I’m not sure the quote marks were strictly necesary tbh! The chances of Bin Laden being captured alive have always been slim though. It’s an outcome that I don’t think either he or the Americans want. ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2004, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-braver-bush-or-osama/274625/19 "2004-11-14T08:29:26Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > And if something like that were to happen…if an American soldier were to kill a POW after capture…that soldier would be guilty of murder and would deserve a long stretch in Leavenworth. I agree, but as to him being brave everyone seems to be forgetting his desire to be a martyr and those 73 virgins. Personally, I wonder what he’s waiting for. ---
**Author:** ![Avenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Avenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avenger)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2004, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-braver-bush-or-osama/274625/20 "2004-11-14T08:59:05Z")
> [@kniz](#): > > I agree, but as to him being brave everyone seems to be forgetting his desire to be a martyr and those 73 virgins. Personally, I wonder what he’s waiting for. Same would apply to Bush and his view of the heaven that awaits him, no? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-braver-bush-or-osama/274625.md?page=2)