# Who Is Currently The Most Prominent Person Whose Birth Date Is Ambiguous? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 26, 2012, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-currently-the-most-prominent-person-whose-birth-date-is-ambiguous/642210 "2012-11-26T22:51:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-currently-the-most-prominent-person-whose-birth-date-is-ambiguous/642210/41 "2012-11-28T09:35:40Z")
robert\_columbia writes: \> But then, isn’t giving birth something that is, well, memorable? Are most of the \> people who don’t know their birthdays orphans or foundlings, or is it a matter \> of mom and dad simply not caring and soon forgetting? I wonder if they forget \> their anniversary. Do people in Pakistan literally call their mom and ask, “Hey \> mom, I was born in 1982, right? What was the exact date?”, and get a \> response of, “Sorry son, I’m so forgetful but I remember it was the season that \> Uncle Akbar got drunk and fell off a ladder, or maybe it was the year after. Oh \> well. How are you son?” You’re assuming a modern attitude here towards a number of things. (I was going to say a modern American attitude, but I don’t know where you live.) You’re assuming that each birth is a big thing, with each child to be cherished as a precious, unreplacable item, rather than another kid to add to the brood since a lot of them die before they grow up. You’re assuming that birthdays and anniversaries are a big deal with celebrations each year, rather than something that can’t be bothered with since they take time away from earning enough to avoid starvation. You’re assuming a society with comprehensive records on everything. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-currently-the-most-prominent-person-whose-birth-date-is-ambiguous/642210/42 "2012-11-28T11:43:33Z")
Well put, Wendell. I lived with a family in rural Mexico with nine kids, for a few months. They all knew their birth DAYS (day of the year), but a couple of them were unsure of the YEAR of their birth, and therefore of their ages. It just occurred to me now that most of them had given names which referred to their “saint day” in the Catholic calendar --e.g., Maria de Jesus was born on December 24 – and that, deliberately or not, this makes it easier to remember birthdays (but not years) in a society where neither is otherwise as much a part of life as what we’re used to. ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-currently-the-most-prominent-person-whose-birth-date-is-ambiguous/642210/43 "2012-11-28T12:02:32Z")
The German Minister of Economics and current German Vice-Chancellor [Philipp Rösler](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philipp_R%C3%B6sler) is of Vietnamese descent. He was born in 1973 in a Vietnamese village. He was dropped at a Catholic orphanage in Saigon and doesn’t know his natural parents. Rösler was adopted and raised by a German couple. Rösler’s precise date of birth is unknown. The date which is used for official purposes (24 February 1973) is an estimate. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-currently-the-most-prominent-person-whose-birth-date-is-ambiguous/642210/44 "2012-11-28T12:13:30Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > But can’t one do a simple calculation to convert? If mom remembers that you were born on Muharram 17, 1397 before sunset, can’t you just plug the numbers in and churn out a Gregorian date? My understanding is that it would not be a simple calculation- it would involve using old calendars. Which _might_ be easy now, but wouldn’t have been in the past. Easier to say “I don’t know” ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2014, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-currently-the-most-prominent-person-whose-birth-date-is-ambiguous/642210/45 "2014-04-17T19:07:14Z")
I’m reviving this thread because I learned recently that Gwendoline Christie, the actress who portrays Brienne of Tarth on _Game of Thrones_, does not know the date of her birth (although apparently she knows the year; imdb says 1978). ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2014, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-currently-the-most-prominent-person-whose-birth-date-is-ambiguous/642210/46 "2014-04-17T19:19:15Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > I presume that the OP is talking about living people. If you’re going to include dead people (and furthermore dead people who were never famous), you’re going to have to include nearly everyone who ever lived. At least he didn’t say [Madonna](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=654452) again! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2014, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-currently-the-most-prominent-person-whose-birth-date-is-ambiguous/642210/47 "2014-04-17T19:35:54Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > Who Is Currently The Most Prominent Person Whose Birth Date Is Ambiguous? “Ambiguous” does NOT mean that we are unsure of when they were born, or that we’re misled about it. “Ambiguous” mean that we DO have a birth date, but we’re not sure what it means. My favorite example: It is commonly understood that George Washington was born on Feb 22 1732. But if you think that the newspapers of that day said “Feb 22” at the top, you’d be wrong. They said “Feb 11”, because at the time, Virginia was still using the Julian calendar. Later, when they switched to the Gregorian calendar, the birth date was adjusted accordingly. So, “Feb 22 1732” is an ambiguous date. To be unambiguous, you’d have to say “Feb 22 1732 New Style” or “Feb 11 1731 Old Style”, both of which would be correct. (For more info, see Wikipedia [here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Washington#cite_note-calendar-3).) ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2014, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-currently-the-most-prominent-person-whose-birth-date-is-ambiguous/642210/48 "2014-04-18T11:19:47Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > I’m reviving this thread because I learned recently that Gwendoline Christie, the actress who portrays Brienne of Tarth on _Game of Thrones_, does not know the date of her birth (although apparently she knows the year; imdb says 1978). Applying the criterion from the initial post in this thread, it would be my guess that Gwendoline Christie is just deliberately obfuscating her date of birth. I don’t see anything in her CV that would indicate that she is a foundling or that her date of birth would otherwise not have been properly recorded in England(?) in the 1970s. ---
**Author:** ![Lucretia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@Lucretia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucretia)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2014, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-currently-the-most-prominent-person-whose-birth-date-is-ambiguous/642210/49 "2014-04-18T12:26:58Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > robert\_columbia writes: > > \> But then, isn’t giving birth something that is, well, memorable? Are most of the > \> people who don’t know their birthdays orphans or foundlings, or is it a matter > \> of mom and dad simply not caring and soon forgetting? I wonder if they forget > \> their anniversary. Do people in Pakistan literally call their mom and ask, “Hey > \> mom, I was born in 1982, right? What was the exact date?”, and get a > \> response of, “Sorry son, I’m so forgetful but I remember it was the season that > \> Uncle Akbar got drunk and fell off a ladder, or maybe it was the year after. Oh > \> well. How are you son?” > > You’re assuming a modern attitude here towards a number of things. (I was going to say a modern American attitude, but I don’t know where you live.) You’re assuming that each birth is a big thing, with each child to be cherished as a precious, unreplacable item, rather than another kid to add to the brood since a lot of them die before they grow up. You’re assuming that birthdays and anniversaries are a big deal with celebrations each year, rather than something that can’t be bothered with since they take time away from earning enough to avoid starvation. You’re assuming a society with comprehensive records on everything. Exactly, **Wendell**. The vast majority of people in Afghanistan don’t know their birthdates, for example. They’re mostly illiterate, and any child’s birth, but especially girls, is not so much a celebration but a new burden that will take years, if ever, to start paying back the investment. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2014, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-currently-the-most-prominent-person-whose-birth-date-is-ambiguous/642210/50 "2014-04-18T13:18:06Z")
> [@Keeve](#): > > “Ambiguous” does NOT mean that we are unsure of when they were born, or that we’re misled about it. “Ambiguous” mean that we DO have a birth date, but we’re not sure what it means. > > My favorite example: It is commonly understood that George Washington was born on Feb 22 1732. But if you think that the newspapers of that day said “Feb 22” at the top, you’d be wrong. They said “Feb 11”, because at the time, Virginia was still using the Julian calendar. Later, when they switched to the Gregorian calendar, the birth date was adjusted accordingly. > > So, “Feb 22 1732” is an ambiguous date. To be unambiguous, you’d have to say “Feb 22 1732 New Style” or “Feb 11 1731 Old Style”, both of which would be correct. (For more info, see Wikipedia [here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Washington#cite_note-calendar-3).) In that case, Isaac Newton, who was born on Christmas Day 1642 according to the Julian calendar in use in Britain in his time, but on 4 January 1643 according to the Gregorian calendar. He is still “prominent”. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2014, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-currently-the-most-prominent-person-whose-birth-date-is-ambiguous/642210/51 "2014-04-18T13:48:11Z")
> [@Donnerwetter](#): > > Applying the criterion from the initial post in this thread, it would be my guess that Gwendoline Christie is just deliberately obfuscating her date of birth. I don’t see anything in her CV that would indicate that she is a foundling or that her date of birth would otherwise not have been properly recorded in England(?) in the 1970s. In the few things I have heard her say or read about her she comes across as a bit odd. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2014, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-currently-the-most-prominent-person-whose-birth-date-is-ambiguous/642210/52 "2014-04-18T15:41:56Z")
For many years, Tina Turner’s date of birth was listed as 11/26/1938, but starting about 25 years ago, the date of 11/26/1939 began to appear in her bios. My mother, who died 8 years ago, has never (in her adulthood) known her exact age. We believe she was born in 1908, but it could have been 1909. There were no birth certificates, and her parents registered only the births of the sons in the parish register. My mother thought she lied about her age to get a drivers license when she was 15, and believes that the false age stayed with her, but the ages of her brothers suggest that 1908 is a more likely date. Census records from the years of her childhood give many erratic ages for her and her siblings, since they were just declared to a census taker by a family member not necessarily in possession of accurate data. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2014, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-currently-the-most-prominent-person-whose-birth-date-is-ambiguous/642210/53 "2014-04-19T03:36:30Z")
The future Mrs. Ronald Reagan, who was born in 1921, misstated her age for her acting career. From Wiki: _When Nancy Davis signed with MGM [in 1949], she gave her birth date as July 6, 1923, shaving two years off her age, a common practice in Hollywood (see Cannon, Governor Reagan, p. 75). This caused subsequent confusion as some sources would continue to use the incorrect birth year._ ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2014, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-currently-the-most-prominent-person-whose-birth-date-is-ambiguous/642210/54 "2014-04-19T03:53:27Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > In fact, excluding foundlings, people born to parents who live off-the-grid, etc., just about anyone born in the First World in the last, oh, hundred years, is going to have a pretty obvious paper trail. Not really. Tons of people were born at home in rural areas pre-WWII that either had no birth certificates, or had one completed at some point with dubious information. I’ve handled cases for several of them. It becomes a major problem when they attempt to qualify for various benefits, including Social Security. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2014, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-currently-the-most-prominent-person-whose-birth-date-is-ambiguous/642210/55 "2014-04-19T12:56:24Z")
Yeah, my paternal grandfather never had a birth certificate. He was born so far out in the country in rural Louisiana that some oddball dialect no one two towns over could understand was his milk tongue. We never found church records or anything. Never mattered a damn, either. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-currently-the-most-prominent-person-whose-birth-date-is-ambiguous/642210.md?page=2)