# Who is deciding this stuff? (model thinness = attractiveness) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 28, 2014, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-deciding-this-stuff-model-thinness-attractiveness/696789 "2014-08-28T20:17:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-deciding-this-stuff-model-thinness-attractiveness/696789/1 "2014-08-28T20:17:14Z")
So I saw [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=732365) and [this news story](http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2014/08/27/gap-uses-skinny-model-to-market-curvy-jeans/) and got to wondering just who out there is pushing this super-thin model ideal? It’s not the straight man ideal- even 25 years ago in college, we were debating whether models were too thin, and back then, it wasn’t that normal women weren’t thin, but rather if models were too thin. Now, with the increasing divergence, it seems like the fashion and advertising industry is pushing actresses and models to be almost skeletal, while the average woman is a size 16 or something like that. So I don’t know where this comes from- where does the idea and pressure come from that these women have to be so thin? ---
**Author:** ![toofs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4491bb/32.png) [@toofs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toofs)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-deciding-this-stuff-model-thinness-attractiveness/696789/2 "2014-08-28T20:31:30Z")
Most likely it is coming from other women. The women I know are subtly and occasionally overtly competitive with each other and catty towards other women. Whether it is about the way other women dress, their shoes (especially shoes) or how they carry themselves, women compete and critique. What you are seeing is that drive for slimness driven to the extreme. You see this everywhere. Things will be pushed as far as possible: body piercings, complete tattoo body coverage, lifted 4X4 trucks raised too high, lowered cars actually resting on the asphalt, etc. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-deciding-this-stuff-model-thinness-attractiveness/696789/3 "2014-08-28T20:34:40Z")
I think it comes from designers, be they gay straight, male or female. They want you to see the clothes, not the model. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-deciding-this-stuff-model-thinness-attractiveness/696789/4 "2014-08-28T20:38:47Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > I think it comes from designers, be they gay straight, male or female. They want you to see the clothes, not the model. I’ve always heard that. Apparently clothes don’t “hang” properly on women with curves. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-deciding-this-stuff-model-thinness-attractiveness/696789/5 "2014-08-28T20:45:19Z")
Yup. Models are treated as nothing but mobile mannequins, done up to convey an image. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-deciding-this-stuff-model-thinness-attractiveness/696789/6 "2014-08-28T20:59:14Z")
My uneducated WAG is that whatever aesthetic feature is associated with wealth and privilege, that’s the feature that people are conditioned to aspire to and find attractive. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-deciding-this-stuff-model-thinness-attractiveness/696789/7 "2014-08-28T21:45:24Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > I’ve always heard that. > Apparently clothes don’t “hang” properly on women with curves. That is the fault of the clothes, not the women with normal shapes. I find those models extremely unattractive. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-deciding-this-stuff-model-thinness-attractiveness/696789/8 "2014-08-28T21:51:16Z")
I think fashion magazine photo editors and photographers add to this problem also. ---
**Author:** ![MostlyClueless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@MostlyClueless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MostlyClueless)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-deciding-this-stuff-model-thinness-attractiveness/696789/9 "2014-08-29T08:29:54Z")
Marketers. First, you create a problem. Then, you sell a solution to that problem. Like Listerine. They literally invented ‘halitosis’ to sell mouthwash. Keep setting absurd standards of appearance, and make people selfconscious so they’ll buy your shit in a vain attempt to feel better about themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Fleetwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fleetwood/32/271_2.png) [@Fleetwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fleetwood)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-deciding-this-stuff-model-thinness-attractiveness/696789/10 "2014-08-29T11:27:48Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > Yup. Models are treated as nothing but mobile mannequins, done up to convey an image. I agree. It is about making the clothing look good. When realistic human looking robots are perfected, this may be the first profession to go (if they are not robots already!). ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-deciding-this-stuff-model-thinness-attractiveness/696789/11 "2014-08-29T11:37:17Z")
There’s this thing called the [Fashion Industry](http://www.statisticbrain.com/fashion-industry-statistics/). Maybe you’ve heard of it. If not for them telling you what to wear and how to look wearing it, [this is where society would end up](https://www.google.com/search?q=people+of+walmart&rlz=1C1GPEA_enUS315US315&espv=2&tbm=isch&imgil=jxaq2Kw2Tk_GtM%253A%253BnrBY8HdC47RTtM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.youtube.com%25252Fchannel%25252FUC_2MVW43Brfedt-KAXWhWHg&source=iu&fir=jxaq2Kw2Tk_GtM%253A%252CnrBY8HdC47RTtM%252C_&usg=__3mLhyABXvXJ6oG-DxND2zQ-7-9s%3D&sa=X&ei=Y2UAVJysO4esogTWu4CwCg&sqi=2&ved=0CDIQ9QEwBQ&biw=1280&bih=685#imgdii=_). ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-deciding-this-stuff-model-thinness-attractiveness/696789/12 "2014-08-29T13:41:05Z")
> [@Fleetwood](#): > > I agree. It is about making the clothing look good. When realistic human looking robots are perfected, this may be the first profession to go (if they are not robots already!). Sure, but that doesn’t explain why it’s such an ideal to aspire to. I mean, it’s past the point of absurdity. Someone like say… Julie Bowen is awfully good looking, but would look even better if she were at least 5 or 10 pounds heavier. Same for quite a few other actresses. I realize that fashion models are essentially human coat hangers, but I don’t quite understand how that translates into being the ideal of beauty that women aspire to, and that men are supposed to want. I guess what’s baffling me is the trend over the past 25 or so years from fashion models being extremely thin, but actresses and fashion models being a more healthy weight, to ALL of them being extremely thin these days. I’m not sure where that’s coming from. All I can come up with is some sort of reaction to society becoming fatter over time. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-deciding-this-stuff-model-thinness-attractiveness/696789/13 "2014-08-29T14:02:46Z")
> [@bump](#): > > All I can come up with is some sort of reaction to society becoming fatter over time. Perhaps they just\* look\* thinner in comparison. ---
**Author:** ![eclectic\_wench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ac91a4/32.png) [@eclectic\_wench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eclectic_wench)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-deciding-this-stuff-model-thinness-attractiveness/696789/14 "2014-08-29T14:16:03Z")
> [@toofs](#): > > Most likely it is coming from other women. The women I know are subtly and occasionally overtly competitive with each other and catty towards other women. Whether it is about the way other women dress, their shoes (especially shoes) or how they carry themselves, women compete and critique. This cliché fascinates me. I keep hearing how ‘women’ do this, but I’ve personally known maybe three women who did it, in my whole life. I know a lot of women who do the opposite - constantly put themselves down and think everything about their own appearance isn’t good enough - but none who bitch about other women. Where on earth are you finding these people? On the original question: a lot of it is marketing-driven. If you convince people that they’re not good enough, and that your product will make them good enough, they’re more likely to buy your product. The diet industry is worth billions a year. If you can convince women, through relentless marketing, that they’re not good enough unless they’re a size 2 or smaller, a lot more of them will buy diet crap than if you convince them that they have to be a size 6 or smaller. So it’s to the advantage of a lot of companies to make the ‘acceptable’ size as thin as you can be without actually keeling over. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-deciding-this-stuff-model-thinness-attractiveness/696789/15 "2014-08-29T16:14:35Z")
Didn’t it start with Twiggy, in 1966? Or Audrey Hepburn as “Sabrina” in 1954? ---
**Author:** ![toofs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4491bb/32.png) [@toofs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toofs)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-deciding-this-stuff-model-thinness-attractiveness/696789/16 "2014-08-29T17:10:53Z")
> [@eclectic\_wench](#): > > This cliché fascinates me. I keep hearing how ‘women’ do this, but I’ve personally known maybe three women who did it, in my whole life. I know a lot of women who do the opposite - constantly put themselves down and think everything about their own appearance isn’t good enough - but none who bitch about other women. Where on earth are you finding these people? Men do it too. A significant motivation for guys who lift weights is being bigger than other guys. As for your question, I am in Southern California. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-deciding-this-stuff-model-thinness-attractiveness/696789/17 "2014-08-30T01:03:18Z")
This thing makes me nuts. Women often are dieting when they are just gorgeous, or too thin. I don’t think it’s their job to look nice for the rest of us. But neither do I think that thinner is better, if they do want to look nice for the rest of us. Dieting to get even thinner is wrong in both directions at once. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-deciding-this-stuff-model-thinness-attractiveness/696789/18 "2014-08-30T01:41:00Z")
It’s like some cosmic joke - a bunch of gay men deciding the standards of female beauty. ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-deciding-this-stuff-model-thinness-attractiveness/696789/19 "2014-08-30T02:56:33Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > I think it comes from designers, be they gay straight, male or female. They want you to see the clothes, not the model. This, exactly. Source: GrumpyBunny’s mummy was a model. She was also grumpy when it was runway season because she didn’t eat much. Also, GrumpyBunny has been a size 6 and a size 16, at 5’10". Clothes hang a LOT differently when you have, um, padding. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2014, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-deciding-this-stuff-model-thinness-attractiveness/696789/20 "2014-08-31T00:19:48Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > Didn’t it start with Twiggy, in 1966? Or Audrey Hepburn as “Sabrina” in 1954? If you look at any typical illustrated history book about the 1960’s, you’ll see a photo of a soldier igniting a Vietnamese thatch roof with a Zippo, a college kid throwing a tear gas canister back at National Gaurdsmen, and Twiggy looking vacantly back at you with her fingers in her mouth. Rightly or wrongly, the fashion industry believes it was a major font of the 60’s ethos shift, and it’s been running with that ever since (that and the conceit that it’s part of the Fine Arts it shares space with on the Hudson and Seine). So it pushes our buttons to gain our attention. I’m glad it challenged homophobia and racism, draping same-sex and mixed race models atop each other, but when it challenges my convictions on pedophilia and heroine chic, I doubt its intentions are purely progressive. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-deciding-this-stuff-model-thinness-attractiveness/696789.md?page=2)