# Who is more "open minded": Religious folks or non believers? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 17, 2016, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-more-open-minded-religious-folks-or-non-believers/755037 "2016-05-17T22:06:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-more-open-minded-religious-folks-or-non-believers/755037/41 "2016-05-18T15:24:04Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > You are not an atheist, according to **Grrr!**'s definition. That would be your interpretation of what he said, of course-I’m not concerned about being too much in conflict with what he _actually_ said. Nice attempt at trying to create a fake conflict there, though. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-more-open-minded-religious-folks-or-non-believers/755037/42 "2016-05-18T15:26:07Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > [Frank Ghery](http://www.architecturaldigest.com/gallery/best-of-frank-gehry-slideshow/all), IMHO. Have faith! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-more-open-minded-religious-folks-or-non-believers/755037/43 "2016-05-18T15:33:12Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > You are not an atheist, according to **Grrr!**'s definition. > > Regards, > Shodan I missed his definition. Which post? ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-more-open-minded-religious-folks-or-non-believers/755037/44 "2016-05-18T16:05:06Z")
The idea that all religious folks are closed minded is ridiculous. Yes, some are. I work in a story is a predominantly Jewish town, owned by Chassidic Jews. I’ve had more interesting conversations with our customers about Judaism, and have also told them about pagans. Not once has anyone tried to convert me or made any disparaging remarks. It’s the street evangelists and anti-abortion crew that are so anti-any other religion but Christian that makes me shake my head. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-more-open-minded-religious-folks-or-non-believers/755037/45 "2016-05-18T16:21:24Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > If you are an atheist who is willing to have an open mind to view points outside your own, I assume you would agree that that person is not an atheist. > > Thus all atheists are closed-minded by definition. I think **Czarcasm** has more-or-less said this, but this just seems to be muddying the waters by varying the definition of what “open-minded” might mean. I think we’d all probably agree that somebody who is unwilling to change their views when presented with compelling new _evidence_ has a closed mind. However, another person’s subjective “view point” is not evidence. We all have the right to hold any opinion we choose, but that does not make all opinions worthy of equal respect. We are entitled to our own opinions, but we are not entitled to our own facts. If I came across an idea that were completely new to me, and discovered that many people believed in it, I would initially be open-minded. Other peoples’ opinion would certainly _stimulate_ me to examine the basis for their beliefs. But my own opinion would ultimately be based on the evidence. When it comes to ideas for which I already fully understand the evidence, other peoples’ opinions _per se_ are largely irrelevant. For example, there is no merit whatsoever in remaining “open-minded” about homeopathy, solely because many people believe in it. In short - people are entitled, as a human right, to hold whatever opinion they choose. But it is the _evidence_ that determines whether the diversity of opinions on an issue all have merit, and whether open-mindedness on the issue is a virtue. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-more-open-minded-religious-folks-or-non-believers/755037/46 "2016-05-18T16:39:43Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > The idea that all religious folks are closed minded is ridiculous. Yes, some are. > > I work in a story is a predominantly Jewish town, owned by Chassidic Jews. I’ve had more interesting conversations with our customers about Judaism, and have also told them about pagans. > > Not once has anyone tried to convert me or made any disparaging remarks. > > It’s the street evangelists and anti-abortion crew that are so anti-any other religion but Christian that makes me shake my head. It’s my understanding that traditionally, Jews don’t really seek converts. In fact, the conversion process can be quite daunting to those wanting to go through it. Is there a historical record of Jewish evangelists or missionaries? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-more-open-minded-religious-folks-or-non-believers/755037/47 "2016-05-18T16:50:46Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > It’s my understanding that traditionally, Jews don’t really seek converts. In fact, the conversion process can be quite daunting to those wanting to go through it. > > Is there a historical record of Jewish evangelists or missionaries? I think you’ll find that goggling “Jewish evangelists” will get you one of two things: 1. Sites that try to convert Jews to Christianity, and 2. So-called “Jews For Jesus” sites, which are really less honest attempts at doing the same thing as #1. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-more-open-minded-religious-folks-or-non-believers/755037/48 "2016-05-18T18:22:05Z")
Atheists are, on the whole, much more open minded. Because when you break everything down, we are not beholden to anything written down thousands of years ago. Each one of us only answers to themselves, and so you have no idea what you’re getting with each atheist. You know with religious people there’s at least a baseline to start with, even if they don’t necessarily follow that to the letter, there is always a baseline ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-more-open-minded-religious-folks-or-non-believers/755037/49 "2016-05-18T18:31:39Z")
As an atheist, I’ve got no jealous god or goddess forbidding me from examining evidence from other religions, or telling me that any such evidence is by it’s very nature suspect or evil. As far as I’m concerned, the first of y’all with the goods will get my attention. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-more-open-minded-religious-folks-or-non-believers/755037/50 "2016-05-18T18:48:10Z")
As an atheist, I can eat whatever I want on whatever day I choose to eat it. Fucks with my gout, but at least I’m not going to hell. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-more-open-minded-religious-folks-or-non-believers/755037/51 "2016-05-18T22:15:11Z")
I will claim that, on average, it is atheists (at least in the US) based on the following claims: 1. People with different religious beliefs (or lack thereof) from their parents are on average more open-minded than people with the same, since they had to be at least open-minded enough to reject the system of belief they grew up with and adopt another. People with the same religious beliefs as their parents may also be quite open minded, but that population also includes everyone who has blindly accepted what they were taught as a child (before critical thinking skills are developed). 2. The proportion of the population of atheists is still a minority, and is increasing over time. This means that atheists are overrepresented in the total population of people whose religious beliefs don’t match their parents, and that people who have switched religions are overrepresented in the total population of atheists. So an average atheist is more likely to be open minded than an average religious person. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-more-open-minded-religious-folks-or-non-believers/755037/52 "2016-05-18T22:21:26Z")
I guess it would depend on how many of the areligious are materialists, which is really just about as closed minded as any religion. They just have one extra religion that they think is wrong. I think I’d lean towards the areligious being more tolerant, but only because of the extreme fundamentalists which even reject science and other versions of their own religion. Atheism never seems to go that far–unlike that South Park joke. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-more-open-minded-religious-folks-or-non-believers/755037/53 "2016-05-18T22:39:12Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > If you are an atheist who is willing to have an open mind to view points outside your own, I assume you would agree that that person is not an atheist. > > Thus all atheists are closed-minded by definition. > > Regards, > Shodan Do you think that having an open mind about something means you have to accept it? I’ve read the entire Bible, cover to cover - both the real part and the Christian part. I studied Eastern religions in college. My understanding of them is clearly better than your level of understanding about atheism, which is pretty much zero. \*\*Grrr! \*\* clearly said that he was accused of being closed minded, not that he was close-minded. So I think an apology is in order. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-more-open-minded-religious-folks-or-non-believers/755037/54 "2016-05-18T22:41:41Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Heck, I often see people (and on this board, it’s usually atheists) who take a very prejudiced, closed-minded view, not just toward religious belief itself, but toward people who hold those beliefs. They hold views about religious _people_ that isn’t based on solid evidence and wouldn’t stand up to serious, scientific examination. Open-minded religious person - the Dalai Lama. Some Christians are too, but it gets them into trouble. On the other hand we have Mike Huckabee. Is calling him close-minded a baseless attack? I can list tons of fellow-travelers. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-more-open-minded-religious-folks-or-non-believers/755037/55 "2016-05-18T22:52:46Z")
[QUOTE=Grrr!;19338213 Because, doesn’t having an open mind work against the very fabric of blind faith?[/QUOTE] Almost everything I do is grounded largely on blind faith. Choice of pharmacy, laundry detergent, whether to drink bottled water or tapwater. I go with something I’m first exposed to, and if that works, it’s good enough for me. Occasionally, I change from somethng habitual, if I have a negative experience with it, otherwise, I just keep on accepting everything on blind faith. People affiliate themselves with a religious faith on pretty much the same grounds. They have a faith presented to them (or not) in early life, and go with it as long as it works for them, irrespective of whether they have an open mind. If it doesn’t keep on working for them, religion and laundry detergent can be changed. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-more-open-minded-religious-folks-or-non-believers/755037/56 "2016-05-18T23:13:16Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > When I Google the phrase “Belief System” the first words I see are and definitions from various following sources pretty much say the same thing. > I’m sorry, but thinking that something doesn’t exist because sufficient evidence hasn’t been brought forth to show that it does(or even _can_) exist is not a “Belief System”. And the first link in a google search is necessarily the most correct possible answer. Right. Sufficient evidence? Try any. You take one single belief from the many I posted and say “That’s not a belief system!” No, it’s not. It’s a belief. It’s one single _part_ of a belief system which happens to be mine. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-more-open-minded-religious-folks-or-non-believers/755037/57 "2016-05-18T23:21:59Z")
**Czarcasm** , you claim to be an atheist. Does that mean (to you) that you have no belief system? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-more-open-minded-religious-folks-or-non-believers/755037/58 "2016-05-18T23:47:34Z")
A deist is an example of a believer without a belief system. Some hidden god exists, and that’s about it. A Christian on the other hand believes lots of related things. I as an atheist provisionally believe that no gods exist due to lack of evidence and the contradictory nature of god belief I see. But that has nothing to do with ethical or scientific belief, and it stands alone, and so is not a belief system. I might well have lots of belief systems about lots of things, such as politics, but they have nothing to do with religion. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-more-open-minded-religious-folks-or-non-believers/755037/59 "2016-05-19T01:49:16Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > A deist is an example of a believer without a belief system. Some hidden god exists, and that’s about it. A Christian on the other hand believes lots of related things. > I as an atheist provisionally believe that no gods exist due to lack of evidence and the contradictory nature of god belief I see. But that has nothing to do with ethical or scientific belief, and it stands alone, and so is not a belief system. > I might well have lots of belief systems about lots of things, such as politics, but they have nothing to do with religion. There are consequences of and corollaries to a belief that there is no God, which you choose to believe, whatever they happen to be. That is the very definition of a belief system. You can claim that you don’t have one on that score, but whether you realize it or not, you do. ---
**Author:** ![spamforbrains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@spamforbrains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spamforbrains)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-more-open-minded-religious-folks-or-non-believers/755037/60 "2016-05-19T02:21:15Z")
> [@](#): > > as an atheist provisionally believe that no gods exist due to lack of evidence and the contradictory nature of god belief I see. But that has nothing to do with ethical or scientific belief, and it stands alone, and so is not a belief system. Ditto. I don’t believe in gods because there is no evidence they exist. Same for lots of other things, like magic and ghosts. If presented with overwhelming evidence, I’d change my mind. Not being able to change your mind even in the face of overwhelming evidence is the very definition of close-minded, so I’d have to say all religious people are close-minded about religion. But people can be simultaneously open and close minded, depending on the topic. Some people firmly believe in X despite all evidence to the contrary yet are open-minded on many other topics. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-more-open-minded-religious-folks-or-non-believers/755037.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-more-open-minded-religious-folks-or-non-believers/755037.md?page=4)