# Who is or was the Worst Briton? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 1, 2005, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-or-was-the-worst-briton/306344 "2005-06-01T08:48:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Sarah\_Woodruff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df788c/32.png) [@Sarah\_Woodruff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarah_Woodruff)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2005, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-or-was-the-worst-briton/306344/41 "2005-06-07T08:17:53Z")
> [@sewalk](#): > > Has no one nominated Guy Fawkes? Considering what you people do to him every year, he has to be universally hated, doesn’t he? Or do you perversely admire him for having the balls to blow up the government? I’ve always thought that Guy Fawkes’ Night is one in the eye for James I, rather than for old Guy himself. There’s an old Punch cartoon that satirises [the contemporary pen-portrait](http://www.fringeblog.com/images/guyfawkes.jpg) of all the conspirators - it shows them in the same suspicious-looking group, complete with 1600s-style goatees and big buckled hats - saying, “Gunpowder, Treason and Plotte! And we all go Wearing these Funny Hats?” ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2005, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-or-was-the-worst-briton/306344/42 "2005-06-07T12:05:15Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > I come from an Irish family, so I’ve heard all the horror stories about Oliver Cromwell. That he was cruel and heartless toward the Irish is undeniable. That many Irish loath his to this day is understanndable. > > And yet… > > I can’t name him as the worst Briton, or even ONE of the worst Britons, because his legacy is not uniformaly negative. IF you believe in republican (small “r”), representative government, you have to acknowledge Cromwell’s role in making that a reality… or at least in bringing it NEARER to reality. > > I have to ask myself, would the world (or even poor Ireland) be a better place if Charles Stuart and the Cavaliers have won? > > The answer is no. I’m inclined to agree about Ireland. I clued myself up a little recently with a long read through the Encylopædia Britannica essay on Irish history, and came away with the impression that the place has been a mess since forever, and it’s harsh to attribute too much of it to Cromwell. Still and all, let’s not forget that Cromwell dealt pretty high-handedly with Parliament in his own turn. I’m struggling to think of any major political reforms originating from the Commonwealth that have led to benefits since, though anyone’s welcome to educate me. > [@astorian](#): > > Cromwell left a legacy of great good AND great evil. Klaus Fuchs, David Irving and Kim Philby left legacies only of evil. > > Oh, incidentally, why hasn’t anybody nominated Lord Haw Haw? Haw-Haw was a scuzzbucket, no error, but it’s doubtful that he actually _achieved_ much that was ill, though he gets points for trying. My nomination, though not necessarily destined to make the cut, is Matthew Hopkins, the Witch-Smeller Pursuivant (sorry, channelling Blackadder again there: that should be “Witch-Finder Generall”), who managed to find an awful lot of witches by the most dubious of means… ---
**Author:** ![Andy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/aeb1de/32.png) [@Andy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2005, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-or-was-the-worst-briton/306344/43 "2005-06-07T13:41:27Z")
> [@sewalk](#): > > Has no one nominated Guy Fawkes? Considering what you people do to him every year, he has to be universally hated, doesn’t he? Or do you perversely admire him for having the balls to blow up the government? Well, I for one despise the guy for _failing_ in his task! ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2005, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-or-was-the-worst-briton/306344/44 "2005-06-07T14:43:21Z")
> [@Andy](#): > > Well, I for one despise the guy for _failing_ in his task! He _is_ generally acknowledged as “the last man to enter Parliament with honest intentions” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![sewalk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@sewalk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sewalk)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2005, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-or-was-the-worst-briton/306344/45 "2005-06-07T19:37:59Z")
See what I mean about the perverse admiration bit? 😛 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-or-was-the-worst-briton/306344.md?page=2)