# Who is organizing/supporting the "caravan"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 22, 2018, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-organizing-supporting-the-caravan/823326 "2018-10-22T12:25:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-organizing-supporting-the-caravan/823326/61 "2018-10-23T17:11:42Z")
I wonder how someone could find that out. Might be impossible with current technology, but maybe someday. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-organizing-supporting-the-caravan/823326/62 "2018-10-23T17:12:09Z")
ehh… ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-organizing-supporting-the-caravan/823326/63 "2018-10-23T17:16:32Z")
Another caravan: [SECOND migrant caravan of 1,000 is heading for the US, following the first | Daily Mail Online](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6307043/SECOND-migrant-caravan-1-000-heading-following-first.html) Why wouldn’t there be? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-organizing-supporting-the-caravan/823326/64 "2018-10-23T17:26:44Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Spray painting swastikas on the US flag and then burning them is certainly not going to help their cause, now will it? [Good thing none of the migrants was responsible for that.](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/caravan-swastika-flag-fire/) ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-organizing-supporting-the-caravan/823326/65 "2018-10-23T17:28:33Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Another caravan: [SECOND migrant caravan of 1,000 is heading for the US, following the first | Daily Mail Online](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6307043/SECOND-migrant-caravan-1-000-heading-following-first.html) > > Why wouldn’t there be? Technically, it’s the third this year and they’re trying to catch up to the larger one. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-organizing-supporting-the-caravan/823326/66 "2018-10-23T17:35:52Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > We know what the Republican stance will in all likelihood be - don’t let them in Not all of them, anyway: > [@Fall 2018 Central America migrant caravan to the US](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/58): > > "[The President’s] approach to this issue is not helpful. We have very little foreign aid going, and the aid we do have helps them with law enforcement, drug interdiction, and with programs to help that population stay there. Cutting those programs indiscriminately, those benefit us as well, and so that needs to be thoughtfully done. > > “These, for the most part, overwhelmingly, are people who are either fleeing violence or looking for a better life. We have programs for some of them — asylum programs… obviously we can’t accept everyone. We have to have border security, but it needs to be done in a thoughtful manner.” - Sen. Jeff Flake (R - AZ) > > [cite 1](https://www.weeklystandard.com/haley-byrd/jeff-flake-pushes-back-on-trumps-caravan-tweets) > [cite 2](https://www.bloombergquint.com/politics/trump-tells-central-american-countries-of-aid-cuts-over-migrants#gs.C=TrLs8) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-organizing-supporting-the-caravan/823326/67 "2018-10-23T17:56:30Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The timing is very suspicious. I doubt Trump himself is behind it; he’s too cheap and this is too subtle for him. But I strongly suspect some conservative PAC fronted the money to get these people on the move. > > I don’t know about the Russians. I think Putin would be just as happy seeing the Democrats winning control of Congress with Trump remaining in office. Putin’s interest is in America having a dysfunctional government and conflict between Congress and Trump would further that. I have read FB posts that think that the democrats are behind it, naming Hillary as one. :rolleyes: And the Russians are currently working hard to keep the GOP in power. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-organizing-supporting-the-caravan/823326/68 "2018-10-23T18:19:41Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > …it will be portrayed in the media in the worst possible light. Much like the the children being separated a few months ago… Give them some help! How might they best present this in a more positive light? ---
**Author:** ![EscAlaMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/escalamike/32/4177_2.png) [@EscAlaMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EscAlaMike)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-organizing-supporting-the-caravan/823326/69 "2018-10-23T18:30:13Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > People mention the war on drugs but would making drugs legal really help the mass poverty down there? I don’t know that it would affect poverty, but it would certainly reduce violent crime as the cartels would be rendered powerless. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-organizing-supporting-the-caravan/823326/70 "2018-10-23T20:49:07Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Give them some help! How might they best present this in a more positive light? “This isn’t about asylum, it’s about mobs of people thinking that because they want to come here they have a right to change our immigration laws. There are thousand of people—some legitimately seeking asylum and others simply trying to sneak in—who feel that what they want from the US is more important that what Americans want from their own duly elected government. We are a generous, empathetic and sympathetic nation, but we will not be bullied by mobs to ignore the laws the people have passed. If a mob comes to our gates, it is our responsibility to secure those gates. This mob will be stopped. Because it is the right thing to do. And because it is the only way to prevent more mobs from coming next week, next month, next year. Those legitimately seeking asylum need to apply in their own country, not at our door. If they do, their petitions for asylum will not be heard. also, those traveling and seeking asylum from central America are bound to seek in in the next safe country, and that is Mexico. And Mexico cannot choose to not enforce their own immigration laws and allow people to reach our border. We view that as Mexico being complicit in an attack on our sovereignty and way of life. If they allow this to happen we will have no choice but to close our border. We don’t want to do it, and we will feel some pain in doing so, but it will be more painful for them.” Or something like that. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-organizing-supporting-the-caravan/823326/71 "2018-10-23T21:57:38Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > "This isn’t about asylum, it’s about mobs of people thinking that because they want to come here they have a right to change our immigration laws. There are thousand of people—some legitimately seeking asylum and others simply trying to sneak in—who feel that what they want from the US is more important that what Americans want from their own duly elected government. We are a generous, empathetic and sympathetic nation, but we will not be bullied by mobs to ignore the laws the people have passed. If a mob comes to our gates, it is our responsibility to secure those gates. This mob will be stopped. Because it is the right thing to do. And because it is the only way to prevent more mobs from coming next week, next month, next year. Those legitimately seeking asylum need to apply in their own country, not at our door. If they do, their petitions for asylum will not be heard. Only that that exudes ignorance of the law, like Trump does. > **[Deporting asylum-seekers without giving them a chance to make their case...](https://theworld.org/stories/2018/06/26/deporting-asylum-seekers-without-giving-them-chance-make-their-case-would-violate)** > > President Donald Trump’s tweets show an “ignorance of the law,” says immigration attorney Charles Kuck. > [@](#): > > Charles Kuck, an Atlanta-based immigration attorney and past president of the American Immigration Lawyers Association, says while unauthorized migrants already aren’t given a chance to make their case in court, asylum-seekers are protected under US law and international refugee and asylum laws. > [@](#): > > Asylum-seekers, however, are treated differently. > > “The reason why asylum-seekers are exempted from immediate removal from the United States is because of our international treaty obligations,” says Kuck. “The United States has a long history, prior to the signing of the Refugee Convention in 1967, of turning away asylum-seekers. We turned away boatloads of Jews during World War II and we didn’t want to go back to that time.” > > “So our laws, as we treat asylees coming in the United States and refugees outside the United States, are controlled both by international law and by the US law interpretation of those international treaty obligations. It’s not something we can simply ignore,” he says. > [@magellan01](#): > > also, those traveling and seeking asylum from central America are bound to seek in in the next safe country, and that is Mexico. And Mexico cannot choose to not enforce their own immigration laws and allow people to reach our border. We view that as Mexico being complicit in an attack on our sovereignty and way of life. If they allow this to happen we will have no choice but to close our border. We don’t want to do it, and we will feel some pain in doing so, but it will be more painful for them." > > Or something like that. Something like that is what nationalists of the past century wanted it to be. Incidentally, the elected president of Mexico does want to offer jobs to immigrants like that, but he is not going to take power until December or January. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-organizing-supporting-the-caravan/823326/72 "2018-10-24T02:42:52Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Only that that exudes ignorance of the law, like Trump does. Your cite addresses asylum seekers. And the arguments raised or those on one side. By let’s assume it’s all correct, are you off the mind that the entire caravan is comprised of asylum seekers? Even those who, when interviewed, said they wanted to come to the US for work? What do you suggest we do with them? > [@GIGObuster](#): > > Something like that is what nationalists of the past century wanted it to be. Nice try. This is a unique situation. We have a mob of people approaching our border with the intent to enter, damn the law. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-organizing-supporting-the-caravan/823326/73 "2018-10-24T03:26:05Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > “This isn’t about asylum, it’s about mobs of people thinking that because they want to come here they have a right to change our immigration laws. There are thousand of people—some legitimately seeking asylum and others simply trying to sneak in—who feel that what they want from the US is more important that what Americans want from their own duly elected government. We are a generous, empathetic and sympathetic nation, but we will not be bullied by mobs to ignore the laws the people have passed. If a mob comes to our gates, it is our responsibility to secure those gates. This mob will be stopped. Because it is the right thing to do. And because it is the only way to prevent more mobs from coming next week, next month, next year. Those legitimately seeking asylum need to apply in their own country, not at our door. If they do, their petitions for asylum will not be heard. also, those traveling and seeking asylum from central America are bound to seek in in the next safe country, and that is Mexico. And Mexico cannot choose to not enforce their own immigration laws and allow people to reach our border. We view that as Mexico being complicit in an attack on our sovereignty and way of life. If they allow this to happen we will have no choice but to close our border. We don’t want to do it, and we will feel some pain in doing so, but it will be more painful for them.” > > Or something like that. ACCORDING TO INTERNATIONAL LAW, YOU CAN’T REQUEST ASYLUM IN A COUNTRY UNLESS YOU ARE IN THAT COUNTRY, OR AT THE BORDER. If you are actually so ignorant that you don’t realize that, maybe you should shut the fuck up. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-organizing-supporting-the-caravan/823326/74 "2018-10-24T03:28:41Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Your cite addresses asylum seekers. And the arguments raised or those on one side. By let’s assume it’s all correct, are you off the mind that the entire caravan is comprised of asylum seekers? Even those who, when interviewed, said they wanted to come to the US for work? What do you suggest we do with them? > > Nice try. This is a unique situation. We have a mob of people approaching our border with the intent to enter, damn the law. MORE RACIST LIES. Their intent is to apply for asylum as they are legally entitled to do. And it isn’t a unique situation in any way, these caravans have been happening since 2010 and nobody noticed until Fox News decided to start spewing lies about it. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-organizing-supporting-the-caravan/823326/75 "2018-10-24T03:58:10Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > ACCORDING TO INTERNATIONAL LAW, YOU CAN’T REQUEST ASYLUM IN A COUNTRY UNLESS YOU ARE IN THAT COUNTRY, OR AT THE BORDER. > > If you are actually so ignorant that you don’t realize that, maybe you should shut the fuck up. Reported. [But here’s some reading for you, as it appears you’re wrong:](https://immigration-law.freeadvice.com/immigration-law/asylum/filing_American_embassy.htm) > [@](#): > > Refugees: Asylum for Those Located Outside the U.S. > If you are a refugee, you may contact the American embassy for assistance in submitting an application for resettlement to the United States. They will assist you in completing your application and gathering your supporting documentation. They can also help arrange loans to pay for any relocation expenses. Once your application is approved and you enter the U.S., you are authorized to work. Within one year of your entry, you are required to apply for permanent residency status, or a green card. Filing your application as quickly as possible with the American embassy is important because caps or quotas are generally set each year for the number of persons admitted as refugees. > > Even if you are not eligible as a refugee under the refugee process, you may still qualify for assistance through other asylum-type programs through the American embassy. For example, if you are the victim of domestic violence, you may not fit the statutory definition of refugee, but you may still qualify for a visa under the Violence Against Women Act. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-organizing-supporting-the-caravan/823326/76 "2018-10-24T04:01:15Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Your cite addresses asylum seekers. And the arguments raised or those on one side. By let’s assume it’s all correct, are you off the mind that the entire caravan is comprised of asylum seekers? Even those who, when interviewed, said they wanted to come to the US for work? What do you suggest we do with them? > > Nice try. This is a unique situation. We have a mob of people approaching our border with the intent to enter, damn the law. From the same source you cited: > [@](#): > > Can I Apply for Asylum at an American Embassy? > > No. You must be physically present in the United States to apply. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-organizing-supporting-the-caravan/823326/77 "2018-10-24T04:03:53Z")
NM, duplicate. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-organizing-supporting-the-caravan/823326/78 "2018-10-24T04:06:59Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Wrong, as your cite reported, that “mob” is going to seek asylum where they can: at the the US border. Refugees can apply at any U.S. Embassy. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-organizing-supporting-the-caravan/823326/79 "2018-10-24T04:08:09Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > From the same source you cited: From that cite, can refugees apply for asylum from a U.S. Embassy—yes or no? ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-organizing-supporting-the-caravan/823326/80 "2018-10-24T04:12:57Z")
And, again, from your own cite: Filing your application as quickly as possible with the American embassy is important because caps or quotas are generally set each year for the number of persons admitted as refugees. IOW, there is little realistic chance that they will be admitted to the US via this route. Refugees and asylees are not the same thing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-organizing-supporting-the-caravan/823326.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-organizing-supporting-the-caravan/823326.md?page=5)