# Who is organizing/supporting the "caravan"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 22, 2018, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-organizing-supporting-the-caravan/823326 "2018-10-22T12:25:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-organizing-supporting-the-caravan/823326/81 "2018-10-24T04:13:53Z")
Here I’ll make it easy for you: > [@](#): > > Refugees: **Asylum for Those Located Outside the U.S.** > If you are a refugee, **you may contact the American embassy** for assistance in submitting an application for resettlement to the United States. They will assist you in completing your application and gathering your supporting documentation. They can also help arrange loans to pay for any relocation expenses. **Once your application is approved and you enter the U.S.** , you are authorized to work. Within one year of your entry, you are required to apply for permanent residency status, or a green card. Filing your application as quickly as possible with the American embassy is important because caps or quotas are generally set each year for the number of persons admitted as refugees. > > Even if you are not eligible as a refugee under the refugee process, **you may still qualify for assistance through other asylum-type programs through the American embassy**. For example, if you are the victim of domestic violence, you may not fit the statutory definition of refugee, but you may still qualify for a visa under the Violence Against Women Act. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-organizing-supporting-the-caravan/823326/82 "2018-10-24T04:15:37Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > And, again, from your own cite: > > Filing your application as quickly as possible with the American embassy is important because caps or quotas are generally set each year for the number of persons admitted as refugees. > > IOW, there is little realistic chance that they will be admitted to the US via this route. Refugees and asylees are not the same thing. Nobody said they were. But both seek **asylum** , as the cite shows. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-organizing-supporting-the-caravan/823326/83 "2018-10-24T04:16:30Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > From that cite, can refugees apply for asylum from a U.S. Embassy—yes or no? Are you illiterate? Read your own damn cite. No, you cannot apply for asylum at a US Embassy. You can apply for refugee status there, but that is not the same thing, as the very first paragraph of your own cite makes clear. International law obligates countries to take in asylum seekers at least temporarily, but doesn’t require them to take in applicants for refugee status. Can you see why one route might be considered preferable to the other? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-organizing-supporting-the-caravan/823326/84 "2018-10-24T04:19:16Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > From that cite, can refugees apply for asylum from a U.S. Embassy—yes or no? Not really the main way asylum seekers get in, as shown already. Of course the main point stands: you were wrong about telling us that “not at our door. If they do, their petitions for asylum will not be heard.” Turns out that indeed, their petitions need to be heard according to our laws. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-organizing-supporting-the-caravan/823326/85 "2018-10-24T04:25:39Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > Are you illiterate? Read your own damn cite. No, you cannot apply for asylum at a US Embassy. You can apply for refugee status there, but that is not the same thing, as the very first paragraph of your own cite makes clear. International law obligates countries to take in asylum seekers at least temporarily, but doesn’t require them to take in applicants for refugee status. Can you see why one route might be considered preferable to the other? It appears that I’m not the one with the reading problem: > [@](#): > > **Refugees: Asylum for Those Located Outside the U.S.** > If you are a refugee, you may contact the American embassy for assistance in submitting an application for resettlement to the United States. They will assist you in completing your application and gathering your supporting documentation. They can also help arrange loans to pay for any relocation expenses. Once your application is approved and you enter the U.S., you are authorized to work. Within one year of your entry, you are required to apply for permanent residency status, or a green card. Filing your application as quickly as possible with the American embassy is important because caps or quotas are generally set each year for the number of persons admitted as refugees. > > Even if you are not eligible as a refugee under the refugee process, you may still qualify for assistance through other asylum-type programs through the American embassy. For example, if you are the victim of domestic violence, you may not fit the statutory definition of refugee, but you may still qualify for a visa under the Violence Against Refugees and Asylums both seek…wait for it…ASYLUM. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-organizing-supporting-the-caravan/823326/86 "2018-10-24T04:27:45Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Here I’ll make it easy for you: Your citation is from a website called [freeadvice.com](http://freeadvice.com). My citation is from a website called [United States Citizenship and Immigration Services](https://www.uscis.gov/faq-page/asylum-eligibility-and-applications-faq#t12802n40186): > [@](#): > > **Who Is Eligible to Apply for Asylum?** > > You may only apply for asylum if you are arriving in or already physically present in the United States. To apply for asylum in the United States, you may ask for asylum at a port-of-entry (airport, seaport, or border crossing), or, if you are already in the United States, you may file Form I-589, Application for Asylum and for Withholding of Removal, at the appropriate Service Center. You may apply for asylum regardless of your immigration status, whether you are here legally or illegally. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-organizing-supporting-the-caravan/823326/87 "2018-10-24T04:29:56Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Not really the main way asylum seekers get in, as shown already. > > Of course the main point stands: you were wrong about telling us that “not at our door. If they do, their petitions for asylum will not be heard.” Turns out that indeed, their petitions need to be heard according to our laws. That’s what I propose they say. I agree that is not within the current law, but I assume that a President can institute restriction in an emergence. Much like the pause on immigration from certain countries the Supreme Court confirmed the President had power to do. But IANAL, so I’ll leave that issue there. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-organizing-supporting-the-caravan/823326/88 "2018-10-24T04:36:50Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > That’s what I propose they say. I agree that is not within the current law, but I assume that a President can institute restriction in an emergence. Courts disagree on that. > **[Judge orders US to bring back asylum seekers deported while court was hearing...](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/aug/09/asylum-seekers-deported-court-trump-administration-judge)** > > Judge calls it ‘outrageous’ that family was sent to Central America, threatening to hold Jeff Sessions in contempt if case isn’t resolved > **[Court Blocks Trump Administration From Blanket Detention of Asylum Seekers...](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/02/us/asylum-court-ruling-detention.html)** > > A federal judge in Washington has ruled against the Trump administration’s widespread practice of detaining migrants seeking asylum while their cases are pending. > [@magellan01](#): > > Much like the pause on immigration from certain countries the Supreme Court confirmed the President had power to do. But IANAL, so I’ll leave that issue there. And as pointed, I will let here the point that arguments from ignorance are not very convincing. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-organizing-supporting-the-caravan/823326/89 "2018-10-24T04:44:41Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Courts disagree on that. Drat! If only there was some way to settle the discrepancy. Maybe like a higher court of sorts, one that all other courts have to follow. Kind of like a court with Supreme authority. We should have something like that, wouldn’t you agree? Now, what to call it…hmmm. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-organizing-supporting-the-caravan/823326/90 "2018-10-24T04:55:43Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Drat! If only there was some way to settle the discrepancy. Maybe like a higher court of sorts, one that all other courts have to follow. Kind of like a court with Supreme authority. We should have something like that, wouldn’t you agree? Now, what to call it…hmmm. AFAIK, the supreme court could intervene to allow the end of that chance for asylum or detentions or separations to continue until a case makes it to them, they have not done so. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-organizing-supporting-the-caravan/823326/91 "2018-10-24T06:15:20Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > ACCORDING TO INTERNATIONAL LAW, YOU CAN’T REQUEST ASYLUM IN A COUNTRY UNLESS YOU ARE IN THAT COUNTRY, OR AT THE BORDER. > > If you are actually so ignorant that you don’t realize that, maybe you should shut the fuck up. > [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > MORE RACIST LIES. > > Their intent is to apply for asylum as they are legally entitled to do. And it isn’t a unique situation in any way, these caravans have been happening since 2010 and nobody noticed until Fox News decided to start spewing lies about it. Typically each of these posts would earn a warning but I will only issue one. This is a warning for personal insults. Don’t tell people to shut the fuck up, and do not accuse other posters of lying. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-organizing-supporting-the-caravan/823326/92 "2018-10-24T13:28:14Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Even those who, when interviewed, said they wanted to come to the US for work? What do you suggest we do with them? Hmmmm…how about put them to work, and start them buying goods and paying taxes while working towards a better life for themselves and their children? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-organizing-supporting-the-caravan/823326/93 "2018-10-24T14:02:16Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Hmmmm…how about put them to work, and start them buying goods and paying taxes while working towards a better life for themselves and their children? To be clear, we’re talking here about those who are not refugees and not seeking asylum. In which case, sure, but on an individualized basis. But no one should be able to jump the line. So let’s assume that Person X wants to come here for work and a better life, shouldn’t we first consider Persons A-W? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-organizing-supporting-the-caravan/823326/94 "2018-10-24T14:07:13Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > To be clear, we’re talking here about those who are not refugees and not seeking asylum. In which case, sure, but on an individualized basis. But no one should be able to jump the line. So let’s assume that Person X wants to come here for work and a better life, shouldn’t we first consider Persons A-W? Well, luckily Persons A-W are also in the caravan, so it’s win-win. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-organizing-supporting-the-caravan/823326/95 "2018-10-24T14:07:59Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Hmmmm…how about put them to work, and start them buying goods and paying taxes while working towards a better life for themselves and their children? Crazy talk. Why, that has only worked in the past every single time and literally defines the reason that the vast majority of us are here debating this in the first place. But, by god, these migrants are different. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-organizing-supporting-the-caravan/823326/96 "2018-10-24T15:22:32Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Well, luckily Persons A-W are also in the caravan, so it’s win-win. Not true. There are people waiting in line to come here legally. And even if there weren’t, we have immigration laws that limit the number of people. Are you off the mind that we should dispense with those laws? Should we open the doors to every single poor person who wants to come from Central and South America? How about Asia? Africa? ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-organizing-supporting-the-caravan/823326/97 "2018-10-24T15:24:20Z")
Oh no!!! Not Africa!! ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-organizing-supporting-the-caravan/823326/98 "2018-10-24T15:24:22Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Crazy talk. Why, that has only worked in the past every single time and literally defines the reason that the vast majority of us are here debating this in the first place. But, by god, these migrants are different. With people coming here _legally._ Millions of people came through Ellis Island. Each was checked, tens, probably hundreds of thousands were denied entry. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-organizing-supporting-the-caravan/823326/99 "2018-10-24T15:26:20Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Not true. There are people waiting in line to come here legally. And even if there weren’t, we have immigration laws that limit the number of people. Are you off the mind that we should dispense with those laws? Should we open the doors to every single poor person who wants to come from Central and South America? How about Asia? Africa? How about the whole world? How about the whole galaxy? How about the _Entire universe?_ How about dropping the ridiculous extremes, and how about talking about what is actually going on here? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-organizing-supporting-the-caravan/823326/100 "2018-10-24T15:31:41Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > How about the whole world? How about the whole galaxy? How about the _Entire universe?_ > > How about dropping the ridiculous extremes, and how about talking about what is actually going on here? Wait, what? I don’t want any of those dirty Denebians coming here! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-organizing-supporting-the-caravan/823326.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-organizing-supporting-the-caravan/823326.md?page=6)