# Who is Satan? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 13, 2011, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-satan/574551 "2011-03-13T17:19:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Enola\_Straight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dec6dc/32.png) [@Enola\_Straight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Straight)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2011, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-satan/574551/81 "2011-03-16T23:30:31Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Elohim, as best I can tell, is simply the plural of “god”. IIRC, Elohim is the singular form of the plural Eloha…“the gods”…a pantheon. Elohim meant “_this_ god”, or, more accurately, “_THE_ God”. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-satan/574551/82 "2011-03-17T00:35:02Z")
> [@Enola\_Straight](#): > > IIRC, Elohim is the singular form of the plural Eloha…“the gods”…a pantheon. > > Elohim meant “_this_ god”, or, more accurately, “_THE_ God”. I may be in error here, but I think you have that backwards – _eloha_ is the singular, _elohim_ the (grammaticval) plural – but used with singular modifiers to mean "THE one and only God"in much the same way as plural pronouns are used in some languages as honorific singulars. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-satan/574551/83 "2011-03-17T00:59:17Z")
> [@Enola\_Straight](#): > > IIRC, Elohim is the singular form of the plural Eloha…“the gods”…a pantheon. > > Elohim meant “_this_ god”, or, more accurately, “_THE_ God”. I’ve now double checked and Elohim’s plurality depends on whether it’s used with a _plural_ verb. It is a plural, but when used with a singular verb, it is like the “royal we”, amplifying the magnitude of a singular item. When used with a plural verb, it refers to a group of deities. It’s likely that the traditional meaning was lost as people forgot that there was ever a pantheon of gods. They came to read it as some sort of vague “magical being”, hence in Samuel (written probably around 600BC) it is used to refer to a ghost, but in Genesis (written probably around 950BC), it refers to gods (like, “don’t worship other gods before me”). Its use in Ugaratic texts (1400-1200BC) is consistently in reference to a pantheon of gods when in the full plural. There is no partial plural there, I don’t believe. (In Ugaritic, it’s ilohim rather than elohim.) ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-satan/574551/84 "2011-03-17T01:12:37Z")
Let me also note that everywhere in the OT where you see “70 angels”, there were held to be 70 gods in the various Ugarit, Canaanite, and Amorite religions. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-satan/574551/85 "2011-03-17T01:20:55Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Let me also note that everywhere in the OT where you see “70 angels”, there were held to be 70 gods in the various Ugarit, Canaanite, and Amorite religions. I don’t believe “70 angels” is stated in the OT or NT 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-satan/574551/86 "2011-03-17T01:58:34Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I don’t believe “70 angels” is stated in the OT or NT 😕 It’s obscured, but the table of nations has the world divided into parts in accord to the number of elohim. If you count those parts, it is 70. In the Book of Enoch (which is non-canonical), there are 70 elohim. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Man\_With\_The\_Golden\_Gun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@The\_Man\_With\_The\_Golden\_Gun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Man_With_The_Golden_Gun)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-satan/574551/87 "2011-03-17T02:29:09Z")
Satan? Isn’t he the guy who got pegged in the ass by his girlfriend? Or have I just been on the SDMB for too long? ---
**Author:** ![Sablicious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@Sablicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sablicious)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-satan/574551/88 "2011-03-17T13:30:00Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Who is Satan? An appellation up which humans can hang their foibles upon. A clothes horse for our soiled wears, that we haven’t the constitution to launder; in the pathetic hope that we may merely ‘air out’ out the feculence we as a species have bedaubed ourselves with. _I.e._, another crutch. ---
**Author:** ![SecondJudith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@SecondJudith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecondJudith)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-satan/574551/89 "2011-03-17T14:22:09Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > Why would you find that offensive? > Christianity is an offshoot of Judaism, after all. Judaism is also an offshoot of Christianity in lots of places - Rabbinic Judaism didn’t really get going until 200-700CE and the two had a lot of impact on each other as they were effectively developing side-by-side. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-satan/574551/90 "2011-03-17T15:43:37Z")
> [@Sablicious](#): > > An appellation up which humans can hang their foibles upon. A clothes horse for our soiled wears, that we haven’t the constitution to launder; in the pathetic hope that we may merely ‘air out’ out the feculence we as a species have bedaubed ourselves with. > > _I.e._, another crutch. Did you happen to read anything other than the title before this response? For enlightenment, give post #1 a try. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-satan/574551/91 "2011-03-17T15:44:22Z")
> [@SecondJudith](#): > > Judaism is also an offshoot of Christianity in lots of places - Rabbinic Judaism didn’t really get going until 200-700CE and the two had a lot of impact on each other as they were effectively developing side-by-side. But that’s an argument _for_ use of the term Judeo-Christian, I would say. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-satan/574551/92 "2011-03-17T15:45:52Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > But that’s an argument _for_ use of the term Judeo-Christian, I would say. And this would be a great topic..for another thread. ---
**Author:** ![SecondJudith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@SecondJudith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecondJudith)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-satan/574551/93 "2011-03-18T09:42:22Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > But that’s an argument _for_ use of the term Judeo-Christian, I would say. If they had ended up as one religion that agreed on everything, yes, you’re right, it would be. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-satan/574551/94 "2011-03-18T13:59:07Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > Why would you find that offensive? > Christianity is an offshoot of Judaism, after all. Yeah but so is islam. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-satan/574551/95 "2011-03-18T14:38:42Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Yeah but so is islam. OK, Judeo-Christo-Islam then. [QUOTE=Second Judith] If they had ended up as one religion that agreed on everything, yes, you’re right, it would be. [/quote] That’s no argument either. As if Christians agree on anything amongst themselves, or Jews. But sorry for the hijack, back to Satan, the great divider. ---
**Author:** ![StaudtCJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@StaudtCJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StaudtCJ)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2011, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-satan/574551/96 "2011-03-20T01:33:48Z")
I always figured that Satan was the greatest hoax ever played. I mean, supposedly Satan is Lucifer, Angel of Light, who was cast down from Heaven along with the other Angels that rebelled against G-d. However, we are told that mankind is the only creature created with Free Will. So therefore, the angels couldn’t have rebelled without orders to do so, because they had no free will. The scenario I picture is G-d pulling his right hand bro aside and saying “Dude, there’s just GOT to be a bad guy, right? So do me a favor, bro, and go down there for a while and convince the talking monkeys that I’m totally good, and you’re totally mean, and tempt them to do bad things, so we can see how much bad or good is in each one. Take a couple thousand angels with you. Meet you up here for nachos and beer in 3 millenia, 'kay man?” But I’m considered rather strange. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2011, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-satan/574551/97 "2011-03-20T03:45:50Z")
> [@StaudtCJ](#): > > I always figured that Satan was the greatest hoax ever played. I mean, supposedly Satan is Lucifer, Angel of Light, who was cast down from Heaven along with the other Angels that rebelled against G-d. However, we are told that mankind is the only creature created with Free Will. So therefore, the angels couldn’t have rebelled without orders to do so, because they had no free will. The scenario I picture is G-d pulling his right hand bro aside and saying “Dude, there’s just GOT to be a bad guy, right? So do me a favor, bro, and go down there for a while and convince the talking monkeys that I’m totally good, and you’re totally mean, and tempt them to do bad things, so we can see how much bad or good is in each one. Take a couple thousand angels with you. Meet you up here for nachos and beer in 3 millenia, 'kay man?” > > But I’m considered rather strange. Have you perhaps read Harlan Ellison’s _The Deathbird_? ---
**Author:** ![StaudtCJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@StaudtCJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StaudtCJ)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2011, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-satan/574551/98 "2011-03-20T05:12:08Z")
No, but now I’m going to have to look it up. Did G-d have a surfer dude accent in that one? For some insane reason, I’ve always pictured G-d as either a surfer dude or a temper-tantrum throwing toddler. In which case, Satan is the babysitter. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-satan/574551.md?page=4)