# Who is the biggest criminal to be declared innocent in the court of law. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 10, 2011, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-biggest-criminal-to-be-declared-innocent-in-the-court-of-law/574236 "2011-03-10T23:45:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-biggest-criminal-to-be-declared-innocent-in-the-court-of-law/574236/41 "2011-03-14T01:01:57Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Do you think everyone that confesses to a crime should be considered automatically guilty of it? No, but I think in this particular case, when there is no reason to believe they are lying and every reason to believe they are telling the truth, it’s reasonable to take them at their word. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-biggest-criminal-to-be-declared-innocent-in-the-court-of-law/574236/42 "2011-03-14T01:15:48Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > The courts are how we determine whether someone _ **actually did commit** _ a crime–what they say is the truth (for all people other than those who have actual first-hand unimpeachable evidence to the contrary). The courts determine if a person is legally quilty of a crime; the reality of whether the person committed the crime is independent of the court’s decision. Was Wyatt Earp tried? ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-biggest-criminal-to-be-declared-innocent-in-the-court-of-law/574236/43 "2011-03-14T15:21:52Z")
Manda Jo–that’s one of the functions of the criminal justice sysrem–to determine when to accept a confession and when not to. J66–I suppose you have some way for us to access “reality” through means other than the criminal justice system? If so please share. For the rest of us, there’s often no way to know what happened on some dark and stormy night, so we’ve invented the criminal justice system to determine what happened. You can disbelieve its pronouncements if you want to, but that doesn’t mean that you are siding with “reality.” It just means you’ve decided to believe other means of determining what happened rather than those our society has chosen to use. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-biggest-criminal-to-be-declared-innocent-in-the-court-of-law/574236/44 "2011-03-14T17:20:40Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > J66–I suppose you have some way for us to access “reality” through means other than the criminal justice system? If so please share. For the rest of us, there’s often no way to know what happened on some dark and stormy night, so we’ve invented the criminal justice system to determine what happened. You can disbelieve its pronouncements if you want to, but that doesn’t mean that you are siding with “reality.” It just means you’ve decided to believe other means of determining what happened rather than those our society has chosen to use. Stop claiming to speak for “the rest of us”. The rest of us are all saying you’re wrong. Crimes occur all the time without people being convicted of them. The criminal justice system is just one small aspect of determining the truth. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-biggest-criminal-to-be-declared-innocent-in-the-court-of-law/574236/45 "2011-03-14T18:27:33Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Manda Jo–that’s one of the functions of the criminal justice sysrem–to determine when to accept a confession and when not to. > . This confession was made to a national magazine after the trial, when the men were protected by double jeopardy. The function of historians is the weigh all the evidence and come up with a picture of what most likely happened. I mean, my god, do you think Joan of Arc committed willful heresy, or are modern historians allowed to speculate that she was maybe crazy? ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-biggest-criminal-to-be-declared-innocent-in-the-court-of-law/574236/46 "2011-03-14T18:33:42Z")
But what you are missing is that, beyond “determining” the truth, the criminal justice system actually manufactures the truth (becauser it is the organ of our society that is tasked with creating truth with repect to whether people committed crimes). So it’s meaningless for you to talk about “what really happened in reality” in situations where you have no means other than the criminal jusrice system to determine that. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-biggest-criminal-to-be-declared-innocent-in-the-court-of-law/574236/47 "2011-03-14T18:37:43Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > This confession was made to a national magazine after the trial, when the men were protected by double jeopardy. The function of historians is the weigh all the evidence and come up with a picture of what most likely happened. I mean, my god, do you think Joan of Arc committed willful heresy, or are modern historians allowed to speculate that she was maybe crazy? Well, historical analysis is just a special application of public opinion at a time when the criminal justice system has run its course. I think your example is beyond the scope of this discussion. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-biggest-criminal-to-be-declared-innocent-in-the-court-of-law/574236/48 "2011-03-15T00:50:33Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > J66–I suppose you have some way for us to access “reality” through means other than the criminal justice system? If so please share. For the rest of us, there’s often no way to know what happened on some dark and stormy night, so we’ve invented the criminal justice system to determine what happened. Are you seriously arguing that a court decision determines what occurred in the past? Reality: the events that occurred Court decision: one to twelve persons determination if the evidence presented warrants a verdict of ‘guilty’ or ‘not guilty’ Correlation coefficient? I don’t know. I don’t care. That’s not my point. ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-biggest-criminal-to-be-declared-innocent-in-the-court-of-law/574236/49 "2011-03-15T01:36:19Z")
Originally Posted by Heyoka13 Seems like Clinton dodged a bullet during his trial in the US Senate . . . > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Clinton was not\*\* charged\*\* with or **tried** for any crime. Impeachment is not a legal proceding. 1. First of all, it doesnt matter if clinton was actually “charged” or tried, he still committed crimes and therefore clinton is a criminal for doing so. Clinton clearly committed perjury, among literally a dozen criminal accusations. 2. Secondly, the United States Senate “tried” clinton after clinton was impeached, and let him go. 3. Clinton also plea bargained and on his last day of office agreed to a 5-year suspension of his law license and a $25,000 fine. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-biggest-criminal-to-be-declared-innocent-in-the-court-of-law/574236/50 "2011-03-15T02:34:40Z")
> [@j66](#): > > Are you seriously arguing that a court decision determines what occurred in the past? > > Reality: the events that occurred > > Court decision: one to twelve persons determination if the evidence presented warrants a verdict of ‘guilty’ or ‘not guilty’ > > Correlation coefficient? I don’t know. I don’t care. That’s not my point. So what’s your method of determining reality other than a court decision? Please share with the rest of us unfortunates–all we have is the justice system out here. But it sounds like you have something better. Don’t hold back on us, now. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-biggest-criminal-to-be-declared-innocent-in-the-court-of-law/574236/51 "2011-03-15T02:37:05Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > But what you are missing is that, beyond “determining” the truth, the criminal justice system actually manufactures the truth (becauser it is the organ of our society that is tasked with creating truth with repect to whether people committed crimes). So it’s meaningless for you to talk about “what really happened in reality” in situations where you have no means other than the criminal jusrice system to determine that. Maybe you don’t but most people aren’t so limited. The criminal justice system does not manufacture or create truth. The truth exists. The system is designed to reveal it. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-biggest-criminal-to-be-declared-innocent-in-the-court-of-law/574236/52 "2011-03-15T02:45:54Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Maybe you don’t but most people aren’t so limited. > > The criminal justice system does not manufacture or create truth. The truth exists. The system is designed to reveal it. Once that truth is “revealed,” which actually has real-world consequences–the truth of “reality” that just “exists” or the truth according to the criminal justice system? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-biggest-criminal-to-be-declared-innocent-in-the-court-of-law/574236/53 "2011-03-15T03:28:31Z")
What do consequences have to do with it? Who paid the consequences for the deaths of Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman? Nobody was convicted of any crime involving their death. Now rational people would say that two murders occurred but the person who committed the murders was never convicted. Or maybe he was never caught. But by your theory, no crime had occurred. Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman weren’t murdered because no court ever convicted anyone of their murder. And you’re saying the murder isn’t true until a court says it is. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2011, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-biggest-criminal-to-be-declared-innocent-in-the-court-of-law/574236/54 "2011-03-16T23:56:38Z")
> [@j66](#): > > The courts determine if a person is legally quilty of a crime; the reality of whether the person committed the crime is independent of the court’s decision. > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > So what’s your method of determining reality other than a court decision? Please share with the rest of us unfortunates–all we have is the justice system out here. But it sounds like you have something better. Don’t hold back on us, now. Reality is not ‘determined’; reality ‘is’. The justice system is not designed to determine reality. If you do not agree, please provide your definition of reality. > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Once that truth is “revealed,” which actually has real-world consequences–the truth of “reality” that just “exists” or the truth according to the criminal justice system? That … never mind. Both the events that occurred and the court’s verdict have “real-world consequences.” But, please, stop referring to ‘truth’ and the ‘criminal justice system’. The courts are designed to evaluate evidence, not to determine truth. I don’t believe any ethical lawyer or judge would disagree. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-biggest-criminal-to-be-declared-innocent-in-the-court-of-law/574236.md?page=2)