# Who is the earliest historical figure? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 16, 2009, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-earliest-historical-figure/499950 "2009-06-16T15:47:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![davidw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@davidw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidw)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-earliest-historical-figure/499950/1 "2009-06-16T15:47:35Z")
Who is the earliest person whom we know existed. I’m not referring to archeological finds like “Lucy,” or people who may have been mythical, but people with reliable records showing they existed. ---
**Author:** ![Who\_me\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/958977/32.png) [@Who\_me\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Who_me_1)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-earliest-historical-figure/499950/2 "2009-06-16T16:01:47Z")
I don’t know, but I’ve heard some people claim [Gilgamesh](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilgamesh) as the oldest historical figure. ---
**Author:** ![Gotterfunken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/58956e/32.png) [@Gotterfunken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gotterfunken)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-earliest-historical-figure/499950/3 "2009-06-16T16:08:11Z")
Maybe King Narmer of Egypt? He appears (portrait and name) on a ceremonial palette that dates to c. 3000 B.C.E., and is generally thought to be the pharaoh who unified the Upper and Lower Kingdoms of Egypt. This act was traditionally attributed to a king named Menes, who some scholars believe was entirely mythical, while others think he may have been based on the real, historical Narmer. ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-earliest-historical-figure/499950/4 "2009-06-16T16:30:34Z")
[Enmebaragesi](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enmebaragesi) is a Sumerian king from around the time of Gilgamesh. Unlike Mr. G, there is definitive proof that he existed. The First Dynasty Egyptian guys were around earlier, though. ---
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-earliest-historical-figure/499950/5 "2009-06-16T18:32:42Z")
There have been threads on this before. Based on my recollection and experience, there’s going to be a lot of wasted effort unless you quickly clarify the following part of the OP: > [@davidw](#): > > people with reliable records showing they existed. What counts as “reliable”? Define it however you like, but as long as it remains undefined, a lot of people are going to argue about what counts and what doesn’t count. ---
**Author:** ![davidw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@davidw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidw)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-earliest-historical-figure/499950/6 "2009-06-16T19:14:48Z")
I did a quick search before I posted this thread and didn’t see it addressed before, but if there have been threads on this before, I’ll try harder to find them and see what answers they came up with. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-earliest-historical-figure/499950/7 "2009-06-16T19:25:44Z")
I have a 1960 World Book that shows a statute of “Shub-Ad”, a queen of Sumer who lived ca. 3500 BCE. I suppose she would count as an individual who is known. OTOH, when it comes to names that long ago, we have to keep in mind that the name which has come down to us may mean no more than Dark-Eyed Queen. Or the earliest king’s name we know of may just be Big Dude. The earliest non-royal person we know of is probably Imhotep, whose name is supposed to mean “Comes In Peace”. The “Scorpion King” was supposed to have been the father of the first Pharaoh of united Egypt, which makes me wonder if the very concept of personal names was then barely in existence. ---
**Author:** ![Alex\_Dubinsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dbc845/32.png) [@Alex\_Dubinsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alex_Dubinsky)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-earliest-historical-figure/499950/8 "2009-06-17T01:29:26Z")
Xenu ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-earliest-historical-figure/499950/9 "2009-06-17T02:04:12Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > The “Scorpion King” was supposed to have been the father of the first Pharaoh of united Egypt, which makes me wonder if the very concept of personal names was then barely in existence. You may be thinking of this guy: [Scorpion II - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Scorpion) ---
**Author:** ![capybara](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/capybara/32/202_2.png) [@capybara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capybara)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-earliest-historical-figure/499950/10 "2009-06-17T03:03:43Z")
I’m liking Nar-mer (Catfish-chisel) based on contemporary historical record of him. Maybe same guy as Scorpion, maybe same guy as Menes, who can tell, but I like Catfish-Chisel. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-earliest-historical-figure/499950/11 "2009-06-17T03:19:32Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > OTOH, when it comes to names that long ago, we have to keep in mind that the name which has come down to us may mean no more than Dark-Eyed Queen. Or the earliest king’s name we know of may just be Big Dude. The earliest non-royal person we know of is probably Imhotep, whose name is supposed to mean “Comes In Peace”. The “Scorpion King” was supposed to have been the father of the first Pharaoh of united Egypt, which makes me wonder if the very concept of personal names was then barely in existence. Scorpion King bothers you but not Dances with Wolves or Pine Tree Skies Great Joy (Hideki Matsui)? ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-earliest-historical-figure/499950/12 "2009-06-17T13:03:46Z")
I hardly think personal names were undeveloped at that period of protohistory :dubious: but rather it was writing that hadn’t fully been developed yet. Wikipedia notes how predynastic hieroglyphs are hard to interpret. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-earliest-historical-figure/499950/13 "2009-06-17T15:40:40Z")
If “king Scorpion” actually existed, he would be the first named individual known – evidently the last king of Upper Egypt (the Nile Valley) before Menes/Narmer united Upper and Lower Egypt (the latter being essentially the Nile Delta). However, as [the Wikipedia article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Scorpion) on him notes, the name is the Englishing of the scorpion heiroglyph that may or may not have been his given or throne name, and/or he may have been identical to, or a tributary subking to, Menes/Narmer (who himself/themselves may or may not have been the same person). Narmer is attested, and appears to be the same person as the one whom the later Manetho kinglists called Menes – though that is debatable. And the First Dynasty Egyptians have a leg up on the Sumerians and their friends and relations, time-wise. Freud wrote a book purporting to show that Akhnaten (AKA menhotep IV) was the first individual of whom we have knowledge enabling us to give clear personality to. This is most definitely arguable, but worthy of note. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-earliest-historical-figure/499950/14 "2009-06-17T15:45:06Z")
I might also note that the movie starring Dwayne Johnson (“The Rock”) is about as hisgtorically accurate as Bela Lugosi’s depiction of Vlad Tepes. 🙂