# Who is the Greatest Briton?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-briton/133210
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [October 21, 2002, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-briton/133210 "2002-10-21T11:38:06Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Tuco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuco)
#### Post date: [October 21, 2002, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-briton/133210/1 "2002-10-21T11:38:06Z")
Not wanting to hijack [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=140401) thread which was inspired by [this](http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/programmes/greatbritons/) BBC poll , I was wondering who you dopers thought was the Greatest Briton of all time?
The (BBC) shortlist is:
Isambard Kingdom Brunel
Sir Winston Churchill
Oliver Cromwell
Charles Darwin
Diana, Princess of Wales
Quenn Elizabeth I
John Lennon
Viscount Horatio Nelson
Sir Isaac Newton
William Shakespeare
I think it’ll be interesting to see the difference between who Dopers (being made up of an international body with a higher than average knowledge) and the Brits who vote for this, believe is the Greatest Briton.
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### Author:  [@garius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garius)
#### Post date: [October 21, 2002, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-briton/133210/2 "2002-10-21T11:47:21Z")
tricky - my personal greatest britain (Duke of Wellington) didn’t even make the top ten (although interestingly Nelson did).
Going on that ten, i’d say i’m torn between two -
Churchill. For symbolising and pulling together an almost defeated nation and turning it into a force strong enough to resist Hitler’s might. (Europe would look VERY different today if he had failed)
Cromwell. For giving this nation its first glimpse of something apporaching parliamentary democracy and for trying to do the right thing (even if he was sometimes misguided) despite extreme resistance.
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### Author:  [@ralphthemuppet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralphthemuppet)
#### Post date: [October 21, 2002, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-briton/133210/3 "2002-10-21T12:47:57Z")
**Garius** you may need to be a little careful there. Something sits in my mind about The Duke being Irish, or at least having heavy connections with Dublin - I’ll come back to you on that.
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### Author:  [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)
#### Post date: [October 21, 2002, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-briton/133210/4 "2002-10-21T12:55:49Z")
Wellington famously rejected his Irish birthright. When somebody mentioned that having been born in Ireland he must be an Irishman he replied “Logic would state, that because a man is born in a stable; he must be a horse.” Cromwell’s behaviour in Ireland hardly counts as being “sometimes misguided”.
Churchill is the bookies’ favourite to win the poll, btw.
But it gets worse. According to [another poll](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2345355.stm) one in 10 Britons cannot name a single world leader but can list up to five characters in television soap opera EastEnders, and more lunacy along those lines.
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### Author:  [@ralphthemuppet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralphthemuppet)
#### Post date: [October 21, 2002, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-briton/133210/5 "2002-10-21T13:06:22Z")
Thanks for the clarification **Everton** but bang goes my vote for Barbara Windsor 😃
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### Author:  [@Hemlock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hemlock)
#### Post date: [October 21, 2002, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-briton/133210/6 "2002-10-21T13:13:56Z")
Where the hell’s Adam Smith?
Otherwise, Churchill. Saving the world from fascism looks pretty good on the resume.
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### Author:  [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)
#### Post date: [October 21, 2002, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-briton/133210/7 "2002-10-21T13:45:35Z")
**John Locke**
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### Author:  [@Aro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aro)
#### Post date: [October 21, 2002, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-briton/133210/8 "2002-10-21T14:11:15Z")
**James Clerk Maxwell** , (Scottish) whilst being quite the nerd, has had a profound effect on our modern society.
He set out the basic equations for the ‘discovery’ of wireless telegraph, radio, television, electricity, communications, radar, our understanding of light and electromagnetism, the kinetic theory of gases, lasers and he laid the foundations for a possible unified theory.
Not too shabby, IMHO.
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### Author:  [@manwithaplan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manwithaplan)
#### Post date: [October 21, 2002, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-briton/133210/9 "2002-10-21T14:21:53Z")
Churchill’s was an inspirational figure in Britain’s darkest hour and he responded to the challenge of wartime leadership superbly. He shouldered an enormous burden of responsibility over an extended period and he brought his unique style and razor sharp intellect to the job at hand. He was certainly one of the very greatest Britons. **But** , as someone pointed out on last night’s programme, there is a certain element of ‘right place, right time’ in the greatness of a political leader. Other leaders, who did not serve in such “interesting times”, may have assumed the mantle of greatness had circumstances been different.
So I’d go for someone who’s greatness is derived predominantly from their own efforts. Darwin and Newton are tempting but my vote would go to Shakespeare. His contribution to his field of endeavour is absolutely unparallelled. Although he has plagued the teenage years of countless millions, he has left an eternal legacy of beauty and wisdom. To stand apart, as he does, in a field so packed with great figures from around the world, is an incredible achievement. So, come on the Bard!
If Winston or some such won I wouldn’t be disappointed but if it’s Diana, Britain should hang it’s head in shame.
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### Author:  [@manwithaplan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manwithaplan)
#### Post date: [October 21, 2002, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-briton/133210/10 "2002-10-21T14:23:42Z")
Churchill’s what? His dog? His hat? His cigar?
Duh!
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### Author:  [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)
#### Post date: [October 21, 2002, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-briton/133210/11 "2002-10-21T14:46:58Z")
This from the BBC’s website:
> [@](#):
>
> A weekly series presented by Anne Robinson :rolleyes: will profile each of the 10 finalists with celebrities and commentators arguing the case for their own particular favourites.
\
Should be worth watching if you get the chance (except the Diana one - other than for comic potential). I think the additions mentioned in this thread are worthwhile, and they ought to have appeared in, or appeared higher in, the 100.
As I said in the other thread, my top three would be Newton, Darwin and Shakespeare, but I keep changing my mind about the order. Most of the others in the top ten deserve to be contenders.
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### Author:  [@Aro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aro)
#### Post date: [October 21, 2002, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-briton/133210/12 "2002-10-21T14:48:31Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by manwithaplan \*
> \*\*Churchill’s was an inspirational figure… \*\*
To be fair, Diana’s figure was probably superior to his… 😉
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### Author:  [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)
#### Post date: [October 21, 2002, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-briton/133210/13 "2002-10-21T15:08:05Z")
Different poll altogether that, **Aro** - maybe we should start a thread for it? And maybe Barbara Windsor might get in the top 100?
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### Author:  [@Steve\_Wright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_Wright)
#### Post date: [October 21, 2002, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-briton/133210/14 "2002-10-21T15:11:35Z")
Well, my first thought was “Isaac Newton”… and I see no reason to change. No disrespect intended to Churchill, Darwin, Shakespeare or Brunel. Not much disrespect intended towards Cromwell (a very equivocal figure in my eyes), Elizabeth I (signficant, but hardly the greatest), or Nelson (celebrity military leader more than influential military leader - his real accomplishments are overshadowed by his fame). Don’t much care how much disrespect I show John Lennon, worthwhile human being in many ways, but doesn’t belong on that list. _Plenty_ of disrespect intended to the late long blonde trollop, Queen of Our Hearts and _Hello!_ Magazine. I find it significant that the proposed memorial (a sort of designer pond) shares two of her most memorable qualities - shallow and wet.
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### Author:  [@Celyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celyn)
#### Post date: [October 21, 2002, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-briton/133210/15 "2002-10-21T15:19:28Z")
🙂 Hehehehehe re. “shallow and wet”!
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### Author:  [@Zweistein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zweistein)
#### Post date: [October 21, 2002, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-briton/133210/16 "2002-10-21T17:23:50Z")
Even worse:
Wtfi: Isambard Kingdom Brunel ?
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### Author:  [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)
#### Post date: [October 21, 2002, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-briton/133210/17 "2002-10-21T17:39:53Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Wtfi: Isambard Kingdom Brunel ?
This is getting a bit cyclic. The thread linked to by the OP of _this_ thread asked why Brunel was on the list, so I suggest you go to that thread for an answer to wtf he was.
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### Author:  [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)
#### Post date: [October 21, 2002, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-briton/133210/18 "2002-10-21T18:39:11Z")
Seems that some folk are mistaking achievement for fame.
I’ll second **Aro** though I would have to be biased toward Isaac Newton, though his use of “fluxions” is rather less penetrable and useful than the calculus that was developed around the same time Liebnitz which more closely resembles the form in which it is used today.
I think other candidates should include Thomas Newcomen whose primative steam engine was the starting point for the British industrial revolution.
Perhaps you might add Micheal Faraday to that list, being known as the ‘father of electricity’.
Steven Turing for his revolutionary idea of a programmable computing machine, but the great unsung hero of this was GPO engineer and genius in his own right Tommy Flowers, whose work has remained classified until recently.
Tommy Flowers should be credited with the modern electronic computor, pity he never gets the credit for his work.
[http://www.redherring.com/mag/issue63/news-flowers.html](http://www.redherring.com/mag/issue63/news-flowers.html)
Although not a Briton I think that Guglielmo Marconi deserves an honourable mention since he started up his company in the UK and lived here much of his life. His was a major contribution to world technology.
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### Author:  [@Katisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katisha)
#### Post date: [October 21, 2002, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-briton/133210/19 "2002-10-21T19:36:00Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by manwithaplan \*
> \*\*So I’d go for someone who’s greatness is derived predominantly from their own efforts. Darwin and Newton are tempting but my vote would go to Shakespeare. His contribution to his field of endeavour is absolutely unparallelled. Although he has plagued the teenage years of countless millions, he has left an eternal legacy of beauty and wisdom. To stand apart, as he does, in a field so packed with great figures from around the world, is an incredible achievement. So, come on the Bard!
> \*\*
Hear, hear! Go Shakespeare!
Even if I find Harold Bloom’s argument that he “invented the human” rather daft, nobody else has made such a profound contribution to western culture. Although, as a doctoral student in Renaissance literature I freely admit my own bias… 😉
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### Author:  [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)
#### Post date: [October 21, 2002, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-briton/133210/20 "2002-10-21T20:36:55Z")
[Sir Francis Drake!!!](http://www.mcn.org/2/oseeler/drake.htm) Supposedly, his name still inspires dark mutterings among the Spanish. Name another Brit, whom some 400+ years after his death still inspires such. He’s credited with smashing the Spanish Armada and giving control of the high seas to England, without which her Empire might never have came to be. Legend has it that his drum began to beat during WW II, callin Drake from his watery grave to do battle with the Nazi’s. Where was Shakespeare? No doubt mouldering in his grave in some existential angst.
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