# Who is the Greatest Briton? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 21, 2002, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-briton/133210 "2002-10-21T11:38:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2002, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-briton/133210/81 "2002-10-25T23:55:11Z")
I think the criticism of Diana has been amplified _because she’s on this list_. She never was universally loved, but when she died a kind of mass paranoia took over for a while that made any criticism of her difficult to hear. I don’t think of her as the Antichrist, just as a superficial, insignificant, mostly harmless celebrity who doesn’t particularly deserve to be pilloried, but definitely doesn’t deserve to be thought of as one of the top ten (or top hundred) Britons of all time. Seeing her in the same list as the big hitters seems offensive. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2002, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-briton/133210/82 "2002-10-26T15:30:11Z")
One reason I dislike the Princess D is the media hype that surrounded her, almost trying to force us to love her by driving everything of real relevance from the news. To me the whole thing was a disturbing manipulation of the entire media and at times strongly resembled a personality cult. The only thing I find instructive about her life is that we in the west employ tactics that are reminiscant of extremist nations and shows that its all too easy to slip into their ways unless we remain vigilant. The fact that she is on he list of greatest Britons proves my point. Has anyone seen mention of William Wilberforce yet ? ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2002, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-briton/133210/83 "2002-10-26T15:56:53Z")
I’ve seen Wilberforce’s name mentioned a lot, but only by people expressing disgust that he isn’t in the list while so many nonentities are. You’re 100% right about the media hype. The day after Diana died, I bought a _Guardian_ (of all papers - the _Mail_ you could’ve understood). I flipped through and found page after page on the same story. There was even an obituary page in case we hadn’t got the message yet. There was a full page ad for Mercedes, stocks and shares news, horse racing results and a page of football news (my team hadn’t played so I wasn’t bothered to read that either). Nothing else. A complete and total waste of paper. It went straight in the bin. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2002, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-briton/133210/84 "2002-10-26T18:18:59Z")
I think I understand. Kind of like including Jackie Kennedy in a list of great Americans. ---
**Author:** ![Aro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Aro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aro)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2002, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-briton/133210/85 "2002-10-29T08:59:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jsc1953 \* > \*\*…And re: the poll about people who couldn’t name any world leaders, but had soap opera stars at their fingertips… \*\* The way the poll was carried out was a little biased towards the soap watchers though, so the results are easy to understand, IMHO. They stopped random shoppers in a busy street and flashed up faces on a big screen, giving a few seconds to name the personality. When you consider the amount of time the French / German / Italian heads of State on actually on TV in the UK (not often), compared to 5 nights a week for the soaps (plus repeats on Sunday), it is no surprise people are not familiar with them. The poll was set up to produce a negative result from the way it was asked, it seems to me. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2002, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-briton/133210/86 "2002-10-29T10:56:46Z")
I missed the Darwin episode but after hearing about it it seem I didn’t miss much. Di tonight which I’ll be won’t be looking at. After that it’s all good. Cromwell on Friday which I’m looking forward to as I know I’ve got a very very very slanted view on the murdering bastard 😉 and it will be good for me to see him championed rather than slagged off as the murdering swine that he was 😉 I reall y mean those 😉 btw ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Wright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Steve\_Wright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_Wright)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2002, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-briton/133210/87 "2002-10-29T12:38:11Z")
Bah, humbug. I _know_ people who work in the charities sector. Most of them are incredibly hard-working, underpaid (if they’re paid at all) and genuinely concerned for the causes they’re working for. I really do feel it is an injustice to ignore all these people and, instead, hold up some party-girl _poseuse_ as a model of compassion. It takes more than wearing a posh frock and smiling for the cameras to build the New Jerusalem. Personally, I shall be burying my TV in an unmarked grave this evening. I don’t want to run any risk of seeing the Diana programme - I have my blood pressure to think about. (Still voting for Newton. Yes, in person, he was a pain in the bum… but what he accomplished was so important, I’m prepared to forgive him.) ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2002, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-briton/133210/88 "2002-10-29T23:21:29Z")
Reminds me of a (I think) Seinfeld joke: “Isn’t the name ‘Lake Superior’ a little arrogant? After all, they’re all _Great_ Lakes.” So it’s hard to decide on the greatest, because they’re all Great Britons. ---
**Author:** ![Aro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Aro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aro)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2002, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-briton/133210/89 "2002-10-30T09:00:02Z")
Watched the show about Diana last night. It was mentioned that not many people thought she should be n the list. She was championed as the one person on the list who (having not won wars or written books or split the atom or anything ‘silly like that’) _really_ connected with real people, emotionally. Surely everyone in the country connects with real people emotionally. It’s called having a relationship. Once the show was over, I still failed to see how this could put her forward for greatness. But the votes rolled in, putting her in second (behind Brunel), so far. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2002, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-briton/133210/90 "2002-10-30T10:13:00Z")
Why was there a 2nd program about images of Di later on that night which was also part of the Great Britons collections? Are they running a 2nd prog for all the other 9? I dropped into the prog. last night for about 10min.'s. I actually saw the part **Aro** ’s talking about. If that was Rosie’s only argument why Di should be the Greatest Briton then I’m afraid it was lacking in strength to say the least and what was it with all the fairy tale crap? Does anyone know if Di is 1st after tonight? Am I missing a link on the website were we can get a update on positions? ---
**Author:** ![Aro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Aro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aro)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2002, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-briton/133210/91 "2002-10-30T10:15:39Z")
Go to ‘current top ten’, then ‘compare all’ (or click [here](http://www.bbc.co.uk/apps/ifl/greatbritons/queryengine?templatestyle=gbratingall&attrib_1=ranking&oper_1=gt&val_1_1=0&sort_1=ranking&submit=Find+those+hits%21) ) Think she is still in second though, overall. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2002, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-briton/133210/92 "2002-10-30T10:41:13Z")
I missed a link called Current Top 10 :smack: Cheers She’s no. 1 at the moment but I notice that Churchill is at 3 surrounded by the 3 people who have already had their show. Churchill looks like a good bet IMO. ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2002, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-briton/133210/93 "2002-10-30T11:16:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yojimbo \* > \*\*Why was there a 2nd program about images of Di later on that night which was also part of the Great Britons collections? Are they running a 2nd prog for all the other 9? \*\* Yeah, there have been second programmes about the others too (although not necessarily on the same evening as the main programme, and some have been repeats of documentaries already shown on other occasions). I didn’t see last night’s programme but thought I’d better tape it in the interests of balance. Sounds like I needn’t waste my time. Or Boycott it if you like. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Wright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Steve\_Wright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_Wright)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2002, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-briton/133210/94 "2002-10-30T12:06:31Z")
Ugh ugh ugh. I’ve ordered my Azerbaijani phrasebook, just in case. (Actually, the national language of Azerbaijan is Azeri, the Azeri word which best sums up my current feelings is _pokh_, and the one that in my opinion best describes Diana is _ganjykh_. Useful to know.) ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2002, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-briton/133210/95 "2002-10-30T12:15:58Z")
and if I voted for her I’d be feeling a right _damak_ ---
**Author:** ![Futile\_Gesture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f05b48/32.png) [@Futile\_Gesture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futile_Gesture)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2002, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-briton/133210/96 "2002-10-30T12:20:40Z")
The only reasons Diana is anywhere near the list are: A/ Some thought her attractive B/ So she looked good at public functions and on TV. C/ She learnt her craft well from image makers and spin-merchants after her break up with Charles P.o.W. D/ She perfected that caring/humble/bamby-eye look. E/ She died before most figured out that she was just a not overly smart clotheshorse who had the misfortune/fortune to marry into a powerful but disfunctional family. F/ People are idiots who confuse fame with greatness. G/ People are idiots who don’t read any further than celebrity gossip magazines and the TV listings. H/ Popularity contests are no way to measure greatness. ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2002, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-briton/133210/97 "2002-10-30T12:33:29Z")
Agreed, apart from point E/. The people who knew she was a dopey clotheshorse already knew it well before she died, the rest still haven’t got the message. Some of you may recall that when their engagement was announced they were asked whether they were in love and Charles replied along the lines of “Yes. Whatever love is.”; she said she thought he was “pretty amazing”. I take no delight from my own response to that - “I’ll give it five years” - but mass hysteria or wishful thinking are the only reasons you could have drawn a different conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![Aro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Aro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aro)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2002, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-briton/133210/98 "2002-10-30T12:41:11Z")
Can anyone think of a single characteristic attributable to Diana which is (was) not applicable to the Queen Mother in her hey-day? ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2002, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-briton/133210/99 "2002-10-30T13:09:21Z")
I doubt Diana was a racist bint locking her mentally disabled cousins away from the world and disavowing their existence in her heyday. Diana is popular because she died unnaturally and before her time. What really made me hate the redtop scum is the difference between how they treated her when she was alive compared to how they exhalted her when she died. ---
**Author:** ![Aro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Aro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aro)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2002, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-briton/133210/100 "2002-10-30T13:18:40Z")
I can feel the overwhelming power of your love for the Monarchy burning me from here, **Twisty** 😉 (How she was treated post mortem was hardly something within her control - Blame the press instead) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-briton/133210.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-briton/133210.md?page=6)