# Who is the greatest human being ever? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 20, 2002, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-human-being-ever/137755 "2002-11-20T16:52:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Dragon\_Phoenix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@Dragon\_Phoenix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dragon_Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2002, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-human-being-ever/137755/81 "2002-11-22T07:56:45Z")
Johann Sebastian Bach. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2002, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-human-being-ever/137755/82 "2002-11-22T08:26:02Z")
—Jesus’ greatest contribution to philosophy was His moral imperative: “Be perfect.”— I would argue that this idea is inherent in all moral imperatives. That is what makes them imperatives, after all: they are ideals. Indeed, I don’t think it’s right to say that Jesus’ imperative was simply “be perfect” because such an imperative would be cognitively empty: a perfect what? Jesus had a particular form of perfection in mind, just as does anyone demanding perfection. ---
**Author:** ![Justhink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/edb3f5/32.png) [@Justhink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justhink)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2002, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-human-being-ever/137755/83 "2002-11-22T10:25:23Z")
Jesus is a non-topic, the guy didn’t save humanity or add new insights to humanity; assuming he even lived as a single human being (rather than a collage of elitist ideas of how to control populations). On this planet, saviors aren’t frauds until they’re dead or unless they actually help save people. Jesus gets around this by telling everybody that he’ll come back before he dies. Umm… ok? And people wonder how fruad even occurs in the first place. -Justhink ---
**Author:** ![Critical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Critical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical1)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2002, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-human-being-ever/137755/84 "2002-11-22T11:16:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lizard \* > **Not to be argumentative, but the Roman, Mongol, and Alexandrian Empires all fell, but Christianity is still here. .** uh since when is the 4 dozen or so christian religeous groups make up an Empire? and to get off the religeous debate like the op asked us to do my vote Would go for Ghengis Khan, but he died before conquering europe, thus his over all affect on the world is quite a bit smaller than is could have been. so I gotta go with Einstein. I mean where would we be without the gps system? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2002, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-human-being-ever/137755/85 "2002-11-22T11:21:06Z")
Diogenes I understand what you’re saying. There are some patterns and commonalities among the various god myths, just as there are patterns among the Hebrew characters in the Torah and commonalities among the sun, a tennis ball, and Jupiter. But sometimes patterns don’t really suggest anything, and sometimes commonalities are mere coincidence. With respect to what you learned at university about Mithras and your memory of it, I would be the last to disparage either. A university is useful in that it can provide a context that makes it easy for a student to learn. He can avail himself of a wealth of information and learned viewpoints. I’m not saying this happened in your case, but in many cases, the learning experience at university is limited to a relationship between student and professor. When a professor is biased and a student fails to take advantage of other resources and points of view, what the student learns can be severely limited. I’ve run into economics majors right here at Straight Dope who have never read _Human Action_. I’ve encountered philosophy majors who have little or no understanding of objectivist epistemology and ethics. And I’ve even seen a cinematic arts major who had _not once ever_ heard of Lois Weber, arguably the most important director in early Hollywood history. Again, I’m not saying that that is the case with you, but unless you’ve read for yourself at least some of the books I listed in my prior post, aren’t you basically just limited to what your professor wanted to teach? * * * Apos wrote: > [@](#): > > I would argue that this idea is inherent in all moral imperatives. Confucious spoke of perfect virtue. Kant spoke of the perfect ethic. Can you name someone before Jesus who commanded _absolute_ perfection? “Be perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect.” — Jesus ---
**Author:** ![Estilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Estilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Estilicon)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2002, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-human-being-ever/137755/86 "2002-11-22T17:38:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by astorian \* > 2) George Washington. Without George Washington, there’s no United States (he was more responsible for American independence than anyone else, and held the new nation together through the force of his personality), and without the United States, the history of the world is radically altered (MOSTLY for the worse). \*\* With the same arugument, Julius Caesar, Dario I, Pericles, Napoleon, Charles The great, Alexander the great, Saint Gregory the Great, The catholics kings, etc. Will need a better argument ---
**Author:** ![CyberPundit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@CyberPundit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CyberPundit)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2002, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-human-being-ever/137755/87 "2002-11-22T17:53:43Z")
“Confucious spoke of perfect virtue. Kant spoke of the perfect ethic. Can you name someone before Jesus who commanded absolute perfection?” I hardly think that the one sentence that you supply amounts to a philosophy. Who says that the Biblical God is absolutely perfect anyway? That is a matter of religious dogma not philosophy. Of course the term “philosophy” means different things to different people but I think at the very least it should imply something in the way of systematic articulation of one’s beliefs . Exhortations like “Be perfect” don’t really count. ---
**Author:** ![Soup\_du\_jour](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Soup\_du\_jour](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soup_du_jour)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2002, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-human-being-ever/137755/88 "2002-11-22T17:56:17Z")
> [@](#): > > From **Libertarian** > I, for one, hardly see how said Westernization merits a description of “greatest”. The plagues, pestilences, and diseases brought here by the conquerors, along with their unbridled tyrannical massacres in pursuit of their manifest destiny, are not in my opinion mitigated by the fact that there arose from it all a mighty military and industrial power. > [@](#): > > From **Bomzaway** > Can’t agree, not in the least. The guy did a lot of harm to a lot of innocents. Enough so that I think it negates any good that he did. > [@](#): > > From **Apos** > So? Is that better, or worse? If we’re talking simply in terms of what person’s action had the most impact on history, for all we know it could have been Joe Schmoe in Potstown England who killed a pig and set off a massive chain of events. If we’re talking actual laudable accomplishments a person actually got done within their lifetime, under their own power, that’s something very different. Perhaps I didn’t clarify enough, but my use of “greatest” was intended to be value-neutral. It was more of a “most influential” than “best” meaning. I completely agree that Columbus set off many horrendous things into motion. If our criteria is that “greatest” implies “having the most positive impact,” than I would retract my nomination. Otherwise, if “greatest” means “having the largest impact,” I think Columbus is still a viable candidate. But, apparently, the debate has gone in a different direction, so this is a digression. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2002, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-human-being-ever/137755/89 "2002-11-22T17:58:47Z")
😃 😃 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2002, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-human-being-ever/137755/90 "2002-11-22T18:03:28Z")
**Libertarian** , I don’t think I said (at least I didn’t intend to) that proving the derivation of Christian mythos from mystery cults was a _fait accompli_, only that it was not unreasonable to consider it. There are some ornamental aspects of Christianity that are unequivocally pagan in origin. Christmas, of course, is the Roman Saturnalia. Many of the accouterments of Christmas (not just the date) are also of pagan origin. (e.g. feasting, gift giving, Christmas trees, holly, mistletoe) Easter was a spring celebration. Rabbits and eggs are fertlity symbols. Even the name _Easter_ is derived from the name of a Goddess named _Ostern_, (or _Ester_). The early Christian church often found it easier to translate and absorb pagan practices and beliefs into Christian symbology and practice than to eradicate them outright. Feast days and prayers devoted to pagan gods were redevoted to Christian saints. Prayers to Goddesses were redirected to Mary. Is it impossible that the virgin birth motif arose from this milieu? The formalization of the eucharist? A “resurrected” god? I am not restrained by faith from pondering it, and I hope you can forgive me if I look for natural explanations of history before I look for supernatural ones. I mean no disrespect to those of faith. It is a matter of personal taste. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2002, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-human-being-ever/137755/91 "2002-11-22T18:26:47Z")
That’s fair, Diogenese. Frankly, I believe in Him only because of my personal experience. The rest doesn’t really matter. Borrowing from my friend, Phil, it’s all just Nicene arguments over piddly shit. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Longhorn49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/50afbb/32.png) [@Longhorn49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Longhorn49)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2002, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-human-being-ever/137755/92 "2002-11-22T23:45:07Z")
Dalovin’DJ, I agree totally with your angle. The scientists are really the ones who deserve recognition in this battle. Their contributions may not be as famous as religious leaders, but they have impacted our lives far more than say…Jesus or Buddah. But I think Newton deserves more credit than my man Einstein. His discoveries are the foundation of physics. Without his contributions to get it all started, would we have the knowledge to make the technology present in our everyday lives? Religious leaders can claim no such accomplishment. Could we live without Shakespeare? I think so. His contributions are not tangible or helpful. So what if I got a better understanding of extreme human emotions? That has no value compared to scientific discoveries. Ben Franklin is certainly a good candidate. His accomplishments, however, are somewhat irrelevant to people outside of America. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f8ce5/32.png) [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Peyote_Coyote)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-human-being-ever/137755/93 "2002-11-23T02:28:14Z")
Y’ll are prejudiced in favor of those whose names we know. Myself, I vote for the person or persons who figured out how to tame fire. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-human-being-ever/137755/94 "2002-11-23T03:02:54Z")
For me it can only be [Sir Richard Francis Burton](http://vvv.com/home/rowena/srfb.html) . The man was arguably the greatest swordsman of all time. He was a master linguist and spoke 40 languages fluently. He discovered the source of the White Nile, brought the Kama Sutra and Arabian Nights to the West, and was the first Anglo to enter the Forbidden City of Mecca and live to tell the tale. He was a secret agent, and a voracious scholar who explored and sought after knowledge on 5 continents. He absorbed languages and the knowledge of entire cultures the way you might a read comic book. He was a Master Sufi and his knowledge was encyclopedic. I would argue that no man in History accomplished so much across such a wide spectrum, and no man in History posessed such extraordinary talents across such a wide spectrum, physical, mental, artistic, mystical, scientific, linguistical, and literary. ---
**Author:** ![Justhink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/edb3f5/32.png) [@Justhink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justhink)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-human-being-ever/137755/95 "2002-11-23T05:49:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Peyote Coyote \* > \*\*Y’ll are prejudiced in favor of those whose names we know. > > Myself, I vote for the person or persons who figured out how to tame fire. \*\* The person who figured out suicide must have possessed an IQ of 1000 points higher compared to the fire-starter. The capacity to abstract meaning of life and self-recursive awareness is undoubtedly the most significant accomplishment that a human being made. To just sit there one day thinking and _poof_ “then there was light” is astounding! “I can actually throw myself off this cliff and die for a purpose; I can actually move myself in a manner of cause and effect for a purpose” This person must have astounded human beings with their subsequent behavior. -Justhink ---
**Author:** ![t-keela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@t-keela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/t-keela)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-human-being-ever/137755/96 "2002-11-23T06:03:04Z")
most influential person you say?..Bill Gates ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_The\_Diver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Buck\_The\_Diver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_The_Diver)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-human-being-ever/137755/97 "2002-11-23T06:24:49Z")
Thomas Edison. ---
**Author:** ![t-keela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@t-keela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/t-keela)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-human-being-ever/137755/98 "2002-11-23T06:45:36Z")
anybody mention Chuck Darwin yet? seems like he shook it up some… ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-human-being-ever/137755/99 "2002-11-23T14:42:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > \*\*For me it can only be [Sir Richard Francis Burton](http://vvv.com/home/rowena/srfb.html) . [Mountains of the Moon](http://us.imdb.com/Title?0100196) tells the story of Burton finding the source of the Nile. A very enjoyable movie. A great man indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-human-being-ever/137755/100 "2002-11-23T16:22:16Z")
Sir Richard Burton is also the main character in Philip Jose Farmer’s _Riverworld_ series. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-human-being-ever/137755.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-human-being-ever/137755.md?page=6)