# Who is the greatest Starting Pitcher of all time? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 12, 2012, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-starting-pitcher-of-all-time/615524 "2012-03-12T02:35:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-starting-pitcher-of-all-time/615524/61 "2012-03-16T12:47:18Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > Kind of a joke Johnson is atop this poll. I couldn’t seriously consider anyone who played in the dead-ball and/or the segregated era. Its not the individual players fault, but they were competing in a diluted and inferior league, compared to the modern game. Agreed-in terms of ability (and yes durability is certainly part of that, but a lot of that is often era-influenced) he needs to be pretty significantly regressed. In terms of value tho he had a lot-I just personally find discussing ability to be more interesting, if harder to pin down. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-starting-pitcher-of-all-time/615524/62 "2012-03-16T14:01:04Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > Kind of a joke Johnson is atop this poll. I couldn’t seriously consider anyone who played in the dead-ball and/or the segregated era. Its not the individual players fault, but they were competing in a diluted and inferior league, compared to the modern game. That’s a fair point, but where do you draw the line? No, seriously, you have to draw it somewhere. Do you draw it at 1947? If so, why? The league was barely integrated, after all. 1948? 1949? Later? What do you do about guys whose career straddle non/partial/full integration? Do we discount Jackie Robinson’s 1947-1949 seasons because he was playing against almost no black opposition? Say what you will about Walter Johnson, but 1. Johnson was, to put it as best as I can, strikingly MODERN in his pitching abilities and approach. and 2. Despite being past his prime, had a hell of a lot of success after the lively ball came around. ---
**Author:** ![Enlightening\_Meditation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecc23a/32.png) [@Enlightening\_Meditation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enlightening_Meditation)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2012, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-starting-pitcher-of-all-time/615524/63 "2012-03-19T03:51:32Z")
Wins-above-replacement (WAR) is a very subjective statistic based upon guesswork. I choose Pedro Martinez since he absolutely dominated during the steroid juiced high scoring era of the late 90s to early 00s while pitching home games at the hitter-friendly Fenway. Tom Seaver is right up there with him, so it’s tough call between Seaver and Martinez IMO. Cy Young was great for his longevity. He had the most wins in MLB history, but also the most losses and most innings pitched. It was easier to pitch every day in the dead ball era when pitchers didn’t throw as hard as their live-ball era counterparts. Also, there were far fewer homeruns in the dead-ball era. Many fields didn’t even have a homerun fence. Sandy Koufax may have been the greatest in terms of raw skills, though he retired quite young. Nolan Ryan was likely the greatest power pitcher of all time. His career spanned over 30+ years, which is very unusual especially for a fireball thrower. He would be in the running if he didn’t walk so many batters. The Ryan Express could’ve gathered more wins and a Cy Young or three if he pitched for better teams. Spahn was easily the best lefty hurler of all time. ---
**Author:** ![Wilson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@Wilson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wilson)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2012, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-starting-pitcher-of-all-time/615524/64 "2012-03-19T14:48:02Z")
> [@Enlightening\_Meditation](#): > > Spahn was easily the best lefty hurler of all time. Easily??? Unless you put a pretty big era adjustment/penalty in, it’s hard to make the case that Spahn is better than Lefty Grove. Spahn has longevity, but Grove was much more dominant. And that’s leaving out Koufax and Randy Johnson. ---
**Author:** ![Enlightening\_Meditation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecc23a/32.png) [@Enlightening\_Meditation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enlightening_Meditation)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-starting-pitcher-of-all-time/615524/65 "2012-03-20T04:36:43Z")
> [@Wilson](#): > > Easily??? Unless you put a pretty big era adjustment/penalty in, it’s hard to make the case that Spahn is better than Lefty Grove. Spahn has longevity, but Grove was much more dominant. > And that’s leaving out Koufax and Randy Johnson. Oh…forgot that Koufax threw from the sinister side. Johnson was too wild. Grove takes the cake in the AL. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-starting-pitcher-of-all-time/615524/66 "2012-03-20T11:59:41Z")
> [@Enlightening\_Meditation](#): > > Oh…forgot that Koufax threw from the sinister side. Johnson was too wild. Grove takes the cake in the AL. 😕 Unit’s BB/9 from 1995 to the end of his career was 2.5. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-starting-pitcher-of-all-time/615524/67 "2012-03-20T19:00:06Z")
Nolan Ryan’s catching up. I can’t believe this. The heck with Walter Johnson… we just mentioned Randy Johnson. How in the hell is Nolan Ryan better than Randy Johnson? ---
**Author:** ![Yaxche](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8dc957/32.png) [@Yaxche](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yaxche)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-starting-pitcher-of-all-time/615524/68 "2012-03-20T20:39:55Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > How in the hell is Nolan Ryan better than Randy Johnson? He’s not, but I think we’ve already established this poll is pretty much a lost cause at this point. Any greatest starting pitcher discussion that doesn’t at least include Koufax has got to be skewed. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-starting-pitcher-of-all-time/615524/69 "2012-03-20T22:23:20Z")
There must be members of Ryan’s family on the SDMB, it’s the only explanation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-greatest-starting-pitcher-of-all-time/615524.md?page=3)