# Who is the Messiah? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 29, 2012, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-messiah/620341 "2012-04-29T18:13:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-messiah/620341/21 "2012-04-30T17:52:16Z")
And BTW, does the advent of the Messiah have anything at all to do with Elijah actually showing up at the seder, for once? Does the one have to happen before the other, or simultaneously? Serious question. And, why Elijah, who has nothing at all to do with the Exodus/Passover story? Why don’t Jews set a place and open the door for Moses? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-messiah/620341/22 "2012-04-30T18:01:28Z")
Let’s not forget that we don’t have a copy of Jesus’s long form birth certificate indicating he’s actually a descendant of David. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-messiah/620341/23 "2012-04-30T19:53:33Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Let’s not forget that we don’t have a copy of Jesus’s long form birth certificate indicating he’s actually a descendant of David. And even then, there are these persistent questions regarding his paternity . . . ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-messiah/620341/24 "2012-04-30T20:03:17Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > And even then, there are these persistent questions regarding his paternity . . . And the location of his birth. He claims to have been a biblical scholar, but never released his yeshiva records, either. ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-messiah/620341/25 "2012-05-02T04:44:05Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > And BTW, does the advent of the Messiah have anything at all to do with Elijah actually showing up at the seder, for once? Does the one have to happen before the other, or simultaneously? Serious question. > > And, why Elijah, who has nothing at all to do with the Exodus/Passover story? Why don’t Jews set a place and open the door for Moses? Malachi (the book) says the Elijah will return first. As for “why not Moses,” Moses is dead. Elijah was caught up in a whirlwind and taken alive to heaven, where he is assumed to still be living. ---
**Author:** ![Chuck\_Norris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/85e7bf/32.png) [@Chuck\_Norris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chuck_Norris)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-messiah/620341/26 "2012-05-02T05:41:29Z")
> [@brainglutton](#): > > how **would** the messiah announce himself, then? Everybody listen to meee: I… _might_ be the Messiah! ---
**Author:** ![florez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9e5f3/32.png) [@florez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/florez)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-messiah/620341/27 "2012-05-02T06:06:37Z")
I am surprised that more people don’t name their child Messiah. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-messiah/620341/28 "2012-05-02T06:42:34Z")
> [@Nametag](#): > > Malachi (the book) says the Elijah will return first. As for “why not Moses,” Moses is dead. Elijah was caught up in a whirlwind and taken alive to heaven, where he is assumed to still be living. Also, Moses is not mentioned in the Seder. ---
**Author:** ![medicated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@medicated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/medicated)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-messiah/620341/29 "2012-05-02T10:16:56Z")
If you take the geneology in Matthew, you find that Jesus is supposedly descended from Jeconiah, who was cursed in Jeremiah (22:28-30), with his descendants excluded from the kingship. No, I don’t take any of this seriously. It is interesting though. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-messiah/620341/30 "2012-05-02T12:15:41Z")
> [@Chuck\_Norris](#): > > Everybody listen to meee: I… _might_ be the Messiah! No, his name is Bwian and he’s been a very naughty boy. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-messiah/620341/31 "2012-05-02T12:18:10Z")
> [@medicated](#): > > If you take the geneology in Matthew, you find that Jesus is supposedly descended from Jeconiah, who was cursed in Jeremiah (22:28-30), with his descendants excluded from the kingship. > > No, I don’t take any of this seriously. It is interesting though. If you take the geneology in Matthew, Jesus’ daddy is God and none of those listed are his ancestors. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-messiah/620341/32 "2012-05-02T12:20:10Z")
> [@florez](#): > > I am surprised that more people don’t name their child Messiah. “It’s 10 O’Clock: Where’s Your Messiah Now?” ---
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-messiah/620341/33 "2012-05-02T13:30:19Z")
> [@NadaHappyCamper](#): > > If this isn’t the proper place for this ? will the Mod., plz. move it?Though i believe this is a factual question. > In the time of Jesus, why didn’t the Priests believe that Jesus was the Messiah? First, they werent “priests” they were Rabbi’s Christ threatened the “political/economical” structure of the Church. They chose to protect the “political/economical” Church then the Word. In other words, greed and power. Human failings. Much like Church today. JMHO, but todays Religions are more concerned with the perpetuation of their political power, then the Word of God. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-messiah/620341/34 "2012-05-02T14:47:42Z")
> [@dngnb8](#): > > First, they werent “priests” they were Rabbi’s A rabbi is just a teacher. The OP was asking about the priests of Jerusalem, those who took care of the temple. > [@](#): > > Christ threatened the “political/economical” structure of the Church. They chose to protect the “political/economical” Church then the Word. In other words, greed and power. Some hayseed apocalyptic rabbi from out in the sticks threatened the power of the temple? How do you figure that? He was a nobody to them. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-messiah/620341/35 "2012-05-02T14:54:09Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > Sure, and there can be more than one. But the Jewish Bible itself (Isaiah 45) refers to Cyrus as “anointed one,” which means “messiah.” There can be only one. (Sanchez Villa-Lobos Ramirez:86) ---
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-messiah/620341/36 "2012-05-02T14:59:23Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > A rabbi is just a teacher. The OP was asking about the priests of Jerusalem, those who took care of the temple. > > Some hayseed apocalyptic rabbi from out in the sticks threatened the power of the temple? How do you figure that? He was a nobody to them. I disagree. He was a threat to them. It is the very basis of His persecution ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-messiah/620341/37 "2012-05-02T15:37:33Z")
> [@dngnb8](#): > > I disagree. He was a threat to them. It is the very basis of His persecution I disagree with that disagreement. I believe he was prosecuted because of the claim he was king. That’s insurrection, punishment by crucifixion is the norm for that. Crucifixion is not a normal punishment for Jews with opposing (lithurgical) views. ---
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-messiah/620341/38 "2012-05-02T15:43:08Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > I disagree with that disagreement. > I believe he was prosecuted because of the claim he was king. > That’s insurrection, punishment by crucifixion is the norm for that. > > Crucifixion is not a normal punishment for Jews with opposing (lithurgical) views. But His claims, and what he was teaching didnt coincide with the Church at that time. And while I agree with the punishment comparison, He was creating a following that was pulling from the Church (not just in numbers but in teaching). The “King” was the excuse. JMHO ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-messiah/620341/39 "2012-05-02T16:50:28Z")
> [@dngnb8](#): > > But His claims, and what he was teaching didnt coincide with the Church at that time. And while I agree with the punishment comparison, He was creating a following that was pulling from the Church (not just in numbers but in teaching). > > The “King” was the excuse. > > JMHO That is indeed the message you get from the gospels. Views of course depend on how far you trust the gospels. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-messiah/620341/40 "2012-05-02T16:59:31Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > There can be only one. (Sanchez Villa-Lobos Ramirez:86) Are you sure that wasn’t Ramirez 2:91, formally designated as part of the Apocrypha? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-messiah/620341.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-messiah/620341.md?page=3)