# Who is the Messiah? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 29, 2012, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-messiah/620341 "2012-04-29T18:13:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-messiah/620341/41 "2012-05-02T17:00:02Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > That is indeed the message you get from the gospels. > Views of course depend on how far you trust the gospels. Agreed. ---
**Author:** ![florez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9e5f3/32.png) [@florez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/florez)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-messiah/620341/42 "2012-05-03T00:37:40Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > “It’s 10 O’Clock: Where’s Your Messiah Now?” How can I help Messiah resist harmful peer pressure? ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-messiah/620341/43 "2012-05-03T01:24:16Z")
> [@florez](#): > > How can I help Messiah resist harmful peer pressure? Send him away to boarding school after he disrupts services and don’t talk about him again until he graduates and gets baptized 20 odd years later. ---
**Author:** ![Accidental\_Martyr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ce7236/32.png) [@Accidental\_Martyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Accidental_Martyr)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-messiah/620341/44 "2012-05-03T02:45:38Z")
MC Honky > **[I Am the Messiah](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_the_Messiah#_)** > > I Am the Messiah is the only album by MC Honky, released in 2002. Supposedly a middle-age disc jockey from Silverlake, California, MC Honky is promoted by, and widely considered to be, Mark Oliver Everett (or "E") of Eels. > To support the album, an actor would open Eels shows as Honky, to "prove" that he and E were two separate persons. E and MC Honky also engaged in a comic feud on the Internet, in which E hoped MC Honky would catch SARS.\[citation needed\] > The creator of the MC Honky artwork a... ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-messiah/620341/45 "2012-05-03T05:29:08Z")
A babbling apocolyptical idiot spouting Aramaic and roaming the desert unemployed with his 12 male, um… friends?? Same reason you don’t the the hobo with a cup of change wearing a sign with a buybull verse printed on it, dude. Remember, all supposed to happen in HIS lifetime, not ours, so since he died on crucifixion, not the messiah. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-messiah/620341/46 "2012-05-03T07:18:27Z")
> [@dngnb8](#): > > First, they werent “priests” they were Rabbi’s > Christ threatened the “political/economical” structure of the Church. They chose to protect the “political/economical” Church then the Word. In other words, greed and power. Human failings. > > Much like Church today. JMHO, but todays Religions are more concerned with the perpetuation of their political power, then the Word of God. > [@dngnb8](#): > > But His claims, and what he was teaching didnt coincide with the Church at that time. And while I agree with the punishment comparison, He was creating a following that was pulling from the Church (not just in numbers but in teaching). > > The “King” was the excuse. > > JMHO What’s this “Church” you’re talking about? There was no church at that time. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-messiah/620341/47 "2012-05-03T09:07:50Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > What’s this “Church” you’re talking about? There was no church at that time. There _was_ a church, the temple, and the Sadducees were the priests. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-messiah/620341/48 "2012-05-03T09:08:36Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > The priests believed anyone **claiming** to be the Messiah had better be treated as dangerous, because he might start a rebellion the Romans could and would crush. (The Sadducees – priestly party – were a bit more sophisticated than the Zealots, and understood that Judea could not fight Rome the way the Maccabees once fought the Seleucids.) If the claimant actually were the Messiah, he would be unstoppable anyway, wouldn’t he? > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > It’s my understanding the Messiah is a conquering hero, not a slaughtered martyr. Aren’t these valid claims for a messiah? Words like, crush, kill, burn seem to depict almost any religious messiah. And if he.she weren’t heroic, he’d have to be a martyr to obtain a status. So how could someone so related to violent behavior be anyone’s messiah? Religion is, and always has been, a political party. Messiahs are just the leading rep from the house of representatives-- ergo, the one who makes the most noise. So if there is a messiah today, I’d go with Gov. Perry. He asked for rain, it came late, got federal funding for some damages and still accursed them. Sounds just like a Jesus in the temple. Except this messiah had funding. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-messiah/620341/49 "2012-05-03T09:36:04Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > There _was_ a church, the temple, and the Sadducees were the priests. The Jewish Temple was not a church. It was the Jewish Temple. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-messiah/620341/50 "2012-05-03T09:59:25Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > The Jewish Temple was not a church. It was the Jewish Temple. Yeah, technically, but Christianity is so ubiquitous that it is not uncommon for people to use Church to refer to the same basic concept in other religions. Also, was “Temple” used like “Church”? Did it also stand for the religious political hierarchy, as **dngnb8** is clearly using the term? And if not, what would be the appropriate term? ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-messiah/620341/51 "2012-05-03T10:29:02Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > The Jewish Temple was not a church. It was the Jewish Temple. The word “church” comes from greek _kyriakon doma_. the Lord’s house. What else is the Temple as the Lord’s house? Even more so as there was only 1 Temple. There being only one church also means it was at the same time THE church. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-messiah/620341/52 "2012-05-03T19:57:09Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Yeah, technically, but Christianity is so ubiquitous that it is not uncommon for people to use Church to refer to the same basic concept in other religions. > > Also, was “Temple” used like “Church”? Did it also stand for the religious political hierarchy, as **dngnb8** is clearly using the term? And if not, what would be the appropriate term? It may be used that way, but it’s still wrong. If I asked someone “Where do you go to church?” (a question I’m very unlikely to ask, but nevertheless) and they responded “I don’t; I’m Jewish. I go to _synagogue_ at Temple B’nai Brith,” I wouldn’t think it odd, unusual, or pedantic at all. In fact, if they just said “At Temple B’nai Brith,” I’d think they were being a bit snarky by pointedly _not_ correcting me. And to use the term “Church” with a capital letter, which _always_ refers to the Christian religious establishment, often _as distinct_ from other establishments, when referring specifically to the Jewish religious hierarchy is especially jarring. (Note that using “church” as a synecdoche for all religious hierarchies and institutions, as in “separation of church and state” is different than using calling a specific non-Christian institution a church (or the Church). As for your second question, the answer is yes. It wouldn’t be used that way of modern Judaism, and you wouldn’t use Temple to refer to the mass of Jewish people (so you wouldn’t say “members of the Temple” to mean regular Jews) but as a synecdoche for the Temple hierarchy associated with the Sadducees, yes you would. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-messiah/620341/53 "2012-05-03T20:02:41Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > The word “church” comes from greek _kyriakon doma_. the Lord’s house. > What else is the Temple as the Lord’s house? Even more so as there was only 1 Temple. > > There being only one church also means it was at the same time THE church. Where the word comes from has little to do with how it’s used today. The word “doctor” comes from the Latin meaning “teacher” but you wouldn’t introduce yourself as “Doctor Latro” because you work in an elementary school. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-messiah/620341/54 "2012-05-03T20:06:32Z")
Any documentation for Mary doin a raspberry on baby Jesus’ belly and asking, “whose the Messiah?” ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-messiah/620341/55 "2012-05-03T20:20:28Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > Where the word comes from has little to do with how it’s used today. As _used in this thread_; > [@RealityChuck](#): > > On a cynical level, any church is too invested in itself to declare anyone the Messiah, even with proof. “church” is certainly synonym with “temple”. You may be right in that normal parlance we now have distinct meanings for temple, synagogue, mosque and what have you. But for the sake of the discussion they mean the same. Especially since in those times there were no churches, mosques or synangogues, just temples (and for the Jews just one single temple). Which functioned the same as our ‘modern’ churches, mosques and synagogues. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-messiah/620341/56 "2012-05-03T20:32:49Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > I’m scratching a dog’s belly right now saying, “Who’s the Messiah?”, and from her response, I’m pretty sure she thinks she is. I HAVE to try that. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-messiah/620341/57 "2012-05-03T20:57:13Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > I HAVE to try that. What’ll you do when said dog barks out “L Ron!”? ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-messiah/620341/58 "2012-05-03T21:29:55Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > As _used in this thread_; > > “church” is certainly synonym with “temple”. > You may be right in that normal parlance we now have distinct meanings for temple, synagogue, mosque and what have you. But for the sake of the discussion they mean the same. > Especially since in those times there were no churches, mosques or synangogues, just temples (and for the Jews just one single temple). Which functioned the same as our ‘modern’ churches, mosques and synagogues. How it’s used in this thread is wrong, and to _insist_ on using a Christian term for a Jewish institution after being informed of the error is borderline anti-Semitism. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-messiah/620341/59 "2012-05-03T21:45:04Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > How it’s used in this thread is wrong, and to _insist_ on using a Christian term for a Jewish institution after being informed of the error is borderline anti-Semitism. Let me elaborate, since I don’t think you’re actually being anti-Semitic. It’s not that different from insisting on saying “England” to refer to the United Kingdom after being told that it’s wrong. That’s not exactly anti-British, but it is showing a stubbornness and insensitivity about something that has clear political/personal/ethnic significance and about which you are demonstrably _wrong_. The fact that our societies have a real history of anti-Semitism and that the topic is one that has often been used to support anti-Semitism makes it all the more important to get the terms right. There are people who teach that the Jews (and especially the Jews associated with the Temple in the time of Jesus) are or were literally demons or followers of Satan who usurped the role of the true non-Jewish people of God. Such people often use terminological tricks and innovations to make their “case” (such as it is). I certainly don’t think you’re one of those people, **Latro** , but surely you can see why this si significant. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-messiah/620341/60 "2012-05-04T07:21:49Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > How it’s used in this thread is wrong, and to _insist_ on using a Christian term for a Jewish institution after being informed of the error is borderline anti-Semitism. Talk about borderline… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-messiah/620341.md?page=2)